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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| GreyBellAlpacas |
Posted - 01/13/2012 : 10:03:55 PM
I would like to get some feedback on pros, cons and experience from others.
I have 4 females, 2 maidens and 2 older, that I plan to breed to one of our males. I'd like to get them bred within the next couple of weeks but I leave home about 6AM and it's 7PM before I get back to the barn. I am considering putting the male in the pasture with the girls and let nature take its course. The male is 3+ years old but has not bred before.
Bill Davis
Grey Bell Alpaca Farm
Rosharon, Texas 77583
281-595-2272
www.AlpacaNation.com/greybell.asp
Greybellalpacas@yahoo.com
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| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Heidi Christensen |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 12:44:07 AM
Ditto what Sarah said. I got most of my first girls from a farm that run 10 or 12 males with big groups of girls. I would choose which male I wanted to breed to this time and she and the cria would join the group. They would leave them in for 2 weeks, then do US a couple weeks after they were removed. The last couple times I took someone down there they did a couple hand breedings, but I think it was more that my girls were getting older.
I also am in the same situation as Theresa as far as I placed a group of girls in with one of my males last fall and intend to repeat the process this spring/summer. I want June or later crias, so won't do it until at least June. As I mentioned earlier, I leave them in for 2 weeks, take the male out, and spit test a couple weeks later.
Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm
Graham, Wa
(253) 846-2168
http://alpacanation.com/wingnutfarm.asp
http://wingnut-alpacas.com |
| pinkertondan |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 10:39:18 PM
Yes, you can definitely put crias in with their moms for pasture breeding... We usually wean our crias when they turn 6 months old, and have NEVER had any problems with the studs trying to breed them..maybe it's just because they're already preoccupied, or maybe their natural instinct kicks in, and they just know they're not ready yet..
I would add though, that if you have an extremely dominant/aggressive male, it would be a different situation...even with the girls. Usually it's all okay though.
Sarah Pinkerton
Rockford Bay Ranch
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
www.rbr.openherd.com |
| BeachRunFarm |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 10:03:46 PM
Question? I read this idea of pasture breeding with great interest. My only question is what do you do when you have a female that has just given birth and you want to breed her back when the cria is 21 days or so old? How can you leave her in the pasture with the male under those circumstances? What about the cria that needs nursing? Is he safe in the pasture with the male? I would hate for anything to happen to him.
Thanks!
Patricia |
| Felicia |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 07:30:58 AM
Hi Bill,
I have 2 girls that seems to have problems with 'hand mating' so we've decided to leave the stud and 4 open girls in the paddock for the next few weeks. With limited time, leaving them in the paddock is the best option , time wise, for us. If the 2 problem girls (one maiden and one older one) don't get pregnant this time then I'll have the vet check them out.
We also have an untried stud who we will leave with a few girls during the next lot of breeding, in October. I expect a few more months to mature and Spring (in Australia) will help our boy realise what it is all about.
Felicia
Hyde Park Alpacas
Tallarook, Victoria
Australia |
| pinkertondan |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 2:56:29 PM
Hi Theresa,
I'm not sure on the 'optimal length of time' to leave the harems intact, because all it takes is one receptive breeding, so it could be done however is best and most convenient for you... However, someone else might have a better idea on that. 
Regarding your 2nd question, because of the possibility of the some females being 'overbred' or miscarrying, I would recommend spit testing each female first, and only putting in the harem those who seemed either questionable or open.
Just my two cents worth,
Cheers,
Sarah
Rockford Bay Ranch
Coeur d'Alene, Idaho |
| rip55jcp |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 2:48:54 PM
We started pasture breeding last fall and we are just starting our spring breedings. I have several questions for those that are experienced with it:
1. I have limited # of pastures that I can dedicate to a small group of my herd and will have to rotate groups of females/male in and out. Knowing that I have a limited amount of time for each group, what is the shortest, optimal amount of time they should be left together? 7 days, 2 weeks, etc.
2. Is it a bad idea to take the same group of females that I pasture bred in Fall and put them back in with the same male so that he can take care of anyone that didn't catch in the Fall?
Thanks!!
Theresa Pitts
Deepstep Creek Alpacas and Anatolian Shepherds
Deepstep, GA
www.deepstepcreekalpacas.com
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| pinkertondan |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 2:21:56 PM
Hi Susan,
Here's kind of the way it goes....we put the females in...and the breeding begins. I usually try to hang out there and note all the females' reactions, and who got bred for how long, etc.
Most of our girls take the first time, so we automatically put that as the 'Breeding Date', unless we see breedings after that. We also take note of any spittings we sell.
I'm not a vet, but after training and doing it for a while, you can kinda see the difference in fetus sizes, thus guesstimating gestational age. It's nice, because with so many females bred at the same time, you can compare fetus sizes (especially if you know for sure that one of them was bred on a certain date)  .
EDDs are just that...estimated due dates... I know different breeders have different thoughts on how breeding and birthing should go, but we try to do things pretty naturally. Alpacas are pretty good at delivering their cria, and though I like to try to be there (for my own sake, not theirs ), out of the 80+ births we've had, I can probably count on my hands how many I've actually been there for, or needed to help... (and usually if I did, there were huge problems....
Our first crias are due in mid-May (per first breeding date and US follow-up). At the end of April/beginning of May, we'll probably separate those girls into their own paddock/pasture (and take basic vitals, do abdominal palpations and maybe US them again, etc.), and start being on "cria watch"...
I figure they'll give birth when the give birth, and as long as they have a clean, dry place to do it (and the weather is hopefully good), everything should be okay.
If that didn't answer your question, let me know.
Cheers,
Sarah
quote:
Originally posted by JimR
Hi Sarah
I pasture bred once and left the girls in with the mail 2-3 weeks. I had an awful time pinning down the due date as I could only go by breeding's I saw, not ones I didn't see.
It is hard enough trying to be around when they give birth on dates you know let alone dates you aren't sure of (if you have a full time job)
So how do you manage leaving them in for 2-3 months. Even with US that can't tell you exactly can it?
I believe in pasture breeding but on a much smaller scale where you have a much tighter range of due dates.
Susan Rempe
Four Corners Alpacas
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| rackapaca |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 10:37:54 AM
I'd like to try this method some time since we are growing and only have one or two intact males. Seems simple and much less stressful then the early mornings or late afternoons we have available around working. As for due dates, well the females do as they wish anyway, some early, some late and some right on time.
Ruthann
Racka Paca Ranch
Kila, MT |
| JimR |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 08:03:07 AM
Hi Sarah
I pasture bred once and left the girls in with the mail 2-3 weeks. I had an awful time pinning down the due date as I could only go by breeding's I saw, not ones I didn't see.
It is hard enough trying to be around when they give birth on dates you know let alone dates you aren't sure of (if you have a full time job)
So how do you manage leaving them in for 2-3 months. Even with US that can't tell you exactly can it?
I believe in pasture breeding but on a much smaller scale where you have a much tighter range of due dates.
Susan Rempe
Four Corners Alpacas
Bloomfield NM 87413
505 360-8375
River11524@msn.com
www.AlpacaNation.com/fourcorners.asp
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| pinkertondan |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 11:18:17 PM
Bill,
We have done pasture breedings for years now as well (with a herd ranging between 40-60). Since alpacas is a side-business for us, we don't have the time (even when we have 20), to try to 'hand or pen breed', so almost completely rely on Pasture Breeding to get the job done. We do them in harems of 8-10 females at time usually.
As someone said earlier, most of them don't birth on their EDD anyway. However, especially if you're dealing with a semi-proven male, you'll see the breedings happen, and then they'll naturally start spitting the males off.
We usually leave the girls in for 2-3 months, depending, and record any breedings or spittings we see. We own our own ultrasound machine, and so we ultrasound the females as well. It is really quite effective, and we have almost 0 non-bred females or miscarriages and NO reproductivity issues thus far.
In their natural habitat, pasture breeding was the norm...why not leave it that way??
Just a thought.
Cheers,
Sarah |
| GreyBellAlpacas |
Posted - 01/16/2012 : 8:53:06 PM
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate the time each of you spent prepaing a response. It sounds like pasture breeding is not a common practice but there is nothing glaring to indicate it's a bad idea.
Bill Davis
Grey Bell Alpaca Farm
Rosharon, Texas 77583
281-595-2272
www.AlpacaNation.com/greybell.asp
Greybellalpacas@yahoo.com
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| BeachRunFarm |
Posted - 01/15/2012 : 7:12:03 PM
I was going to try pasture breeding as we visited a llama farm that has been doing it for years. I would imagine llamas and alpacas have most of the same habits. He actually leaves the girls with the male for the whole time right through and after the birthing. He swears the males will not hurt the crias, and he said if the mom slips a pregnancy early on; the male will know it and can try to get her pregnant again. Other than that; he also notes the females control the males. He said he has never had a case in 20 years of a male harassing a female after she was pregnant trying to mount her, etc.
I am not certain I would want to take it as far as he does and leave them in the pasture with the male the entire time; but, it works for him, and his herd looks very happy and contented.
Patricia Harkness |
| Ian Watt |
Posted - 01/14/2012 : 3:51:52 PM
Pasture breeding is going to be essential for commercial growers of both alpacas and fiber in the long-term future of the industry, so we need to get used to it I guess!
Way back when, sheep breeders used a leather (probably nylon now) harness that strapped around the shoulders and under the chest of the ram and that harness held a large 'raddle', a type of colored chalk. Different rams were given different colors so each ewe clearly showed what ram did the deed, which ewes were multi-covered, etc. Rams were put in for a couple of weeks followed by another group, etc so birthing dates were within a 14 day period and the ewes could be separated into birthing flocks by color code. Pretty nifty scheme I think!
For alpacas, the trick is to take the male out for a few days after 14 days (pick a time frame) and then the females spit-checked by another male (any assertive male will do) to identify those that are pregnant leaving those that are not; in this way birthing dates can be predicted within 14 days or so which, given the way these animals can mystify us with their birthing routines, is not a bad window in which to manage the process.
Now. if someone could develop a harness for a full-grown alpaca, the whole process would/couldbe much easier!!
Cheers
Ian Watt
Alpaca Consulting USA
www.alpacaconsultingUSA.com
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| Heidi Christensen |
Posted - 01/14/2012 : 2:48:59 PM
I have ended up doing several pasture breedings because at times when I introduce the couple they ignore each other. So my choices were to try again another day or leave them together. I decided to leave them together. I also pasture bred a group of girls last fall.
As for the due dates, I have only had one give birth on her due date anywyay so don't consider that a con. I watch them for a least a month before they are due, depending on whats going on "back there".
Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm
Graham, Wa
(253) 846-2168
http://alpacanation.com/wingnutfarm.asp
http://wingnut-alpacas.com |
| APacaFunFarm |
Posted - 01/14/2012 : 11:46:33 AM
I know of several farms that only use pasture breeding. One farm does this out of necessity due to their large size (hand breeding way out of the question with 100+ breeding pairs to get done in 2-3 months). Needless to say, pasture breeding works well for these folks.
I would echo Ann's comment about first putting him in with the girls when you can watch for a while....just to be sure things will go well. You might consider stalling him next to the females for a day or so before putting him in with them.
Best of luck,
Neil
Neil Padgett
A Paca Fun Farm
Dickerson,MD
mpcpneilp@gmail.com
www.apacafunfarm.com |
| JimR |
Posted - 01/14/2012 : 10:47:50 AM
In the summer we hand breed early morning or around 7ish in the evening because of the heat.
I have tried pasture breeding leaving my 3 girls in with my male for 2 weeks..that was a mistake because it was very hard to pin down breeding dates.
You will have that problem too depending on how long you leave them together,
Unless you see them breeding, you will not be able to tell if they did, didn't, etc.
I saw them breeding as soon as I put 1 girl in, after that I had no idea.
But I will say I tried it with a very hard to get pregnant girl, and she did end up pregnant.
My boy was great with the girls. I never saw him abuse any of them.
He is usually alone, so I think he loved the company too.
Susan Rempe
Four Corners Alpacas
Bloomfield NM 87413
505 360-8375
River11524@msn.com
www.AlpacaNation.com/fourcorners.asp
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| jillmcm |
Posted - 01/14/2012 : 07:54:10 AM
Plenty of alpacas will happily breed after dark, so you could try hand breeding one evening. Since he has never bred before, you will need to space the breedings out a bit, so you can also work with him on a couple of weekends, too.
Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.bagendsuris.com
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| nyala |
Posted - 01/14/2012 : 12:34:27 AM
Hi,
some of our guys would be fine with this assertive but not aggressive, some when they were young were too shy, some would be way to aggressive. See how it goes and see if he is a family kind of man ie assertive enough. Put him in when you can be home to watch.
Ann
D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp |
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