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 Fleece show bags??

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ShepherdsCreek Posted - 02/05/2012 : 7:08:59 PM
I was recently "scolded" by a superintendent and a judge for the type of bags I showed my fleeces in :~(. I've used the same type for a long time, and apparently the rules changed and my bags are too thick. I was told to use these larger opaque bags that have NO writing on them...not even the suffocation warnings that are on so many. Well, I can't find them! Does anyone know where or what brand these bags are? I was told to try Sam's Club. I found commercial trash liners that looked right, so I bought the huge box of them. I opened them yesterday and they have the suffocation warning written on them! HELP!

Barb Sodums
Shepherds Creek Alpacas Williamsport, PA
www.shepherdscreekalpacas.com
shepcreekalpacas@aol.com
20   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
rgoss1 Posted - 03/08/2012 : 10:47:00 PM
Beth - I don't think you have anything to apologize for. I don't do full fleece shows and I wouldn't have known nor would I have thought to look that closely at the rules.

I agree with others on this. It seems like this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Wini - I didn't understand your answer. You had said

Unmarked bags also make everything anonymous in judging so there is no possibility of knowing where the fleeces come from (example - bags with red ties in the show all from the same farm when there are no other bags with red ties).

If the judges don't know who submits the bags, why would it matter if some bags showed up with red tags?

This is another area in which I think CIABA is doing the right thing. Their unskirted event or even their upcoming sorted with reports event requires less work, you get to know how your fleece measures up and a chance to sell it!

thanks

Roxanne Goss
Lands End Alpacas LLC
Vermilion, Ohio
440-225-4138
e-mail:gossr@roadrunner.com
website: www.landsendalpacafarm.com
Alpacas of Gettysburg Posted - 03/08/2012 : 1:11:57 PM
BJ's Wholesale has wonderful "tall kitchen" clear bags. I've used them for years--good size, good quality and cheap. Enough to last you for years.

Alpacas of Gettysburg
suris@alpacasofgettysburg.com
www.alpacasofgettysburg.com
lhmaggie Posted - 02/10/2012 : 09:37:03 AM
Value Home Center is in Meadville Pa. I don't know if they are a chain or not. I will look on the box and see what mill they are.
They are Handi - Bag and are .74 mill. Mfg by Webster Industries Peabody, Ma. They are clear large lawn and trash bags.
Hope this helps.

This is not an advertisement just where I purchase them.

Margaret Laird
Lighthouse Alpacas
Jamestown, Pa 16134
lapaca@windstream.net
ShepherdsCreek Posted - 02/09/2012 : 7:37:34 PM
Maggie,
Thanks for letting me know where you get your bags. Is Value Home Center by any chance a True Value store? I haven't heard of it, but I used to live in PA and am now in WV.
Maybe I can find them online.

Barb Sodums
Shepherds Creek Alpacas Williamsport, PA
www.shepherdscreekalpacas.com
shepcreekalpacas@aol.com
llamapelli Posted - 02/09/2012 : 7:33:40 PM
I know where you can find show-legal bags: alpaca supply websites. Good and cheap--not...and they split open if you look at the askance. I bought a bunch because I thought I would be showing more fleeces. Turns out, I appear to be unwilling to put in the millions of hours of work it takes to get a fleece show-ready. In my defense, I do work 50-60 hours a week, and they tend to look down on picking a fleece clean in the operating room (go figure). Now I just do the occasional spin off. BTW, I would have thought it is illegal to have big plastic bags without the warning on them.

Melanie McMurry MD
Anasazi Alpacas & Kokopelli Llamas
Rocheport, MO
573-698-2141
http://www.alpacanation.com/anasazialpacas.asp
lhmaggie Posted - 02/09/2012 : 5:03:40 PM
This industry had better wake up before it is too late. No wonder people aren't showing any more. A fraction of an ounce will NOT make any difference.
What petty things they can dream up !

I buy clear bags with no markings at Value Home Center.


Margaret Laird
Lighthouse Alpacas
Jamestown, Pa 16134
lapaca@windstream.net
ShepherdsCreek Posted - 02/09/2012 : 4:07:31 PM
My apologies for starting up this somewhat heated discussion! My only intention when I started this topic was to get help FINDING the right bags! I have great faith and respect for the AOBA Judges and Rules, and I certainly would not want anyone to think that I believe that either are in any way at fault! As I mentioned before, it was MY mistake that I was unaware of the > 1 mil thickness rule prior to my last showing, where it was pointed out to me at check-in and check-out, and frankly, it was upsetting and embarassing. I'd like to avoid having this happen again. Now...Winnie has put the rules here clear as a bell....so my question is: Does anyone know why have I been told TWICE that the bags with warnings typed on them are not acceptable? Recently it was the fleece show superintendent who mentioned it, and at an earlier show it was someone at check-in, but I'm not sure if it was a volunteer. (to clarify, I was told by the judge at a show about the thickness rule, but NOT about the typed warning being an issue). Regardless, I would very much like to take my fleeces to shows without having to be stressed or cause stress at check-in. I understand that we don't want any bags to be "identifiers", but I CAN NOT FIND any bags without typed warnings anymore. It does not say in the show rules that the bags can not have any markings on them, so technically, are they ok?? Again, I appreciate any help with finding the correct bags....I just want to do this right!!

Barb Sodums
Shepherds Creek Alpacas Williamsport, PA
www.shepherdscreekalpacas.com
shepcreekalpacas@aol.com
bobvicki Posted - 02/09/2012 : 3:57:03 PM
As I said if a person entering their fleece accepts the possibility of a fraction of an ounce weight disadvantage because they can't find lighter bags where is the problem? regarding red ties possibly being from the same farm how would the judge know that? I understand that someone might scream foul about that anyway but honestly "suffocation warnings" which may wind up on every plastic bag and is clearly a safety thing?

Bob



Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
10371 N 2210 Road
Clinton, Oklahoma 73601
641-831-3576
alpaca@htswireless.com
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp
WiniL Posted - 02/09/2012 : 2:40:22 PM
Show rules are very clear about the bag requirements.

2012 Show Rules
Part 9 Fleece Show Competitions on page 61 under Section B Fleece Show Rules #4 (last sentence) states -

4. Fleece shall consist of the prime fiber only (defined as blanket area which may include portions of the upper leg and neck that are consistent with the blanket in quality and length) and shall be displayed full and intact, not prepared or artificially enhanced in any manner (see full rules prohibiting enhancement in Halter Rules – does not include “dryer sheets” used for moth/pest control), must be skirted, and shall be displayed cut side out for Huacaya, cut side in for Suri. The exhibitor must enter the fleece in a clear plastic bag of 1 mil or less
thickness and approximately 30 gallons.

2012 Show Rules Page 95 Part 14 Appendix A Fleece Show Procedures
under Section 1 A2 Set Up Check In Stations =

2. Setup Check-in Stations.
a. Station # 1: Verify entry name and payment. If Fleece Entry Tags have not been completed have the owner complete them now. If the fleece bag does not comply with the required up to 1 mil thickness and approximately 30 gallon size, have the exhibitor re-bag the fleece into the required bag.

These are not rules created by the judges but by the Show Rules Committee. The judges' job is to ensure rules are followed. The weight of the bag can affect the annualized weight of the fleece which in turn may affect the score by giving it more points than it rightly deserves. A one point difference may make the difference in placement.

Unmarked bags also make everything anonymous in judging so there is no possibility of knowing where the fleeces come from (example - bags with red ties in the show all from the same farm when there are no other bags with red ties). While judges do not look specifically for this, it is easy for an exhibitor to yell unfair if they notice it then blame the judge for bias. Judges work very hard to judge fleece anonymously with an absolute scoring system and follow the rules. I would only hope that exhibitors follow the rules as well.

Wini Labrecque

Star Weaver Farm
Cabot, PA
bobvicki Posted - 02/09/2012 : 10:43:51 AM
First so you understand where I am coming from I will state I do not show whole fleeces off the animal but will enter spin-ff competitions.

When reading this I had the same thought as Craig, "isn't it a fleece being judged, not the bag?" and secondly it may be very difficult to find bags that don't have a warning written on them.
quote:
The bags need to be the same so there are no unfair weight advantages/disadvantages...

While the quote from Sue makes sense I fail to see where a heavier bag should be a cause for disqualification, or being told they may not be able to judge your fleece. After all it is the shower/owner that accepts the higher total weight caused by the bag. What are we talking about here anyway a quarter of an ounce? Writing on the bag how much does that add to the weight if the bags all meet the thickness requirement.

Bob



Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
10371 N 2210 Road
Clinton, Oklahoma 73601
641-831-3576
alpaca@htswireless.com
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp
johnson Posted - 02/09/2012 : 09:17:20 AM
Shouldn't the bags be just a vehicle for getting the fleece to the show ?

To judge a fleece it should be taken out of the bag anyway.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5064.html

Buying plastic bags without warnings may be a problem. Looks like based on this report a warning is needed.

Craig

Craig & Jane Johnson Worthington Acres Alpacas
FeltPAC LLC.
Unityville, Pa.
ff1730@dishmail.net
www.worthingtonacresalpacas.com
ShepherdsCreek Posted - 02/09/2012 : 09:08:11 AM
Sue, I was not under the impression that they were "judging" the bags. If you read my initial post I am trying desperately to find out where to get bags that are acceptable to both the fleece show superintendents and the judges. I have had my bags questioned at two shows. First, my opaque bags from Staples have a warning typed on them, and I was told that they might not be able to judge my fleeces. They did, thankfully. The second time I switched to clear bags with no writing on the advise of a large farm that shows 100s of fleeces, but was told at a recent show that they are too heavy. I was unaware of the "less than 1 mil" rule. So...I have just bought 230 bags from Sam's which I was told were opaque with no writing. Not so...they have a warning typed on them. I've spent a small fortune buying bulk pkgs of bags, and all I want are the right ones! I am not willing to buy 100s of more bags that are wrong. No one seems to know where to get them, and most people bought their's long ago. I am wondering if the bag companies are now requiring the exphixiation warnings to be on all of them?? At any rate, I am to the point of considering no longer showing fleeces since I'm afraid to be admonished at check-in & check-out, but am unable to find the information I need. As you can tell...I am frustrated. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Barb Sodums
Shepherds Creek Alpacas Williamsport, PA
www.shepherdscreekalpacas.com
shepcreekalpacas@aol.com
johnson Posted - 02/09/2012 : 09:07:00 AM
Right.
Sorry, I did not know that writing on the bags would create a weight differnce.


Craig & Jane Johnson Worthington Acres Alpacas
FeltPAC LLC.
Unityville, Pa.
ff1730@dishmail.net
www.worthingtonacresalpacas.com
Sue Ives Posted - 02/09/2012 : 08:27:35 AM
They are not judging the bags. The bags need to be the same so there are no unfair weight advantages/disadvantages...

Sue Ives
Alpacas of Nottingham Hollow
Woodford, VA
ives@alpacasofnottinghamhollow.com
www.alpacasofnottinghamhollow.com
www.AlpacaNation.com/nottinghamhollow.asp
johnson Posted - 02/08/2012 : 12:57:05 PM
Typical. Judging items they should not be judging.

Ridiculous to make it even harder and more time consuming to show.

Craig & Jane Johnson Worthington Acres Alpacas
FeltPAC LLC.
Unityville, Pa.
ff1730@dishmail.net
www.worthingtonacresalpacas.com
lhmaggie Posted - 02/06/2012 : 6:50:56 PM
I thought they were to be judging the fleece ! Why would the bag make any difference ?

Margaret Laird
Lighthouse Alpacas
Jamestown, Pa 16134
lapaca@windstream.net
ShepherdsCreek Posted - 02/06/2012 : 12:09:00 PM
Thanks all. I have hundreds left of the ULine bags I've used for the last 2 years, but I was told in December they are not acceptable. I was told the reasons are 1) they are too thick...over 1 mil apparently, and 2) they are clear, and everybody elses are opaque, so mine should be too. Previously I'd bought opaque shredder bags from Staples, but they have a warning in blue type by the bottom seam, and I was told at a different show 2 years ago that I needed to get ones with no writing on them. Hense, the ULine bags! I've considered buying thinner ones from ULine, but I hate to buy more in bulk. People have told me that the giant can liners they have from Sams and Costco are unmarked, but when I bought them last week they have a bold warning down the side. I'm worried that the trash bag manufacturers started putting warnings on all of these bags now, so none are going to work. Very frustrating!!

Barb Sodums
Shepherds Creek Alpacas Williamsport, PA
www.shepherdscreekalpacas.com
shepcreekalpacas@aol.com
rackapaca Posted - 02/06/2012 : 11:37:49 AM
Good golly - I bought a giant supply a couple of years ago at Costco, they are not clear, perhaps opaque, and no writing on them. They are liners for giant garbage cans. I hope these are OK because it was a huge box of them - for us a life time supply!

Ruthann
Racka Paca Ranch
Kila, MT
rachshees Posted - 02/06/2012 : 11:34:29 AM
I order ours online at Uline.com. They do come as a bulk and you can get different thicknesses. Hope they have what you are looking for.



Rachel Wingert
Diane Sheesley
Rainbow Mountain Alpacas
Punxsutawney PA 15767
rainbowmtalpaca@yahoo.com
jillmcm Posted - 02/06/2012 : 09:48:22 AM
I found leaf bags that work at my local Agway. Don't know the brand, and don't have the box any longer.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ˇBESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.bagendsuris.com

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