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 CDT shots
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cbornstein

252 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  5:36:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How often do cria and adult alpacas receive a CDT shot? Once per year or every six months??

Christine A Bornstein
Alpacas by CBRB
Umatilla, FL
email: alpacasbycbrb@hotmail.com

jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  6:28:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you have twelve of us answer, you'll get thirteen opinions...

I personally do not give CDT shots any longer, based on my personal risk assessment of my farm. There's opinion one.

I have most often heard to give cria a series of three shots, several weeks apart, with an annual shot thereafter. There's opinion two...

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
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LibertyWool

132 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  7:42:28 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jill, out of curiosity, when doing your risk assessment on your farm, what made you determine that tetanus would not be an issue?
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cbornstein

252 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  7:56:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jill:
What is the usual amount of times to give CDT shots?

Christine A Bornstein
Alpacas by CBRB
Umatilla, FL
email: alpacasbycbrb@hotmail.com
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cbornstein

252 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  8:01:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by cbornstein

Jill:
What is the usual amount of times to give CDT shots?

Christine A Bornstein
Alpacas by CBRB
Umatilla, FL
email: alpacasbycbrb@hotmail.com



Also what is the dosage per lb of weight??

Christine A Bornstein
Alpacas by CBRB
Umatilla, FL
email: alpacasbycbrb@hotmail.com
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  8:01:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My fields and buildings are all new - there's nothing out there in the ground that could injure an alpaca (as is so often the case on older farms, where there's all kinds of junk in the ground and everywhere else). I do not have lots of areas of manure accumulation (which the bacteria thrive in) that the alpacas can reach - I clean up the barnyard pretty thoroughly. I try to police the alpaca surroundings to catch any potentially injurious situations.

Yes, my alpacas can still injure themselves and contract tetanus directly from the bacteria in the environment, I do understand that - but the risk of bad reaction from the shots seemed greater to me. I also will confess that cost was a factor early on as well - buying an entire vial of vaccine for a single cria was expensive (overnight shipping), especially since I ended up pitching most of it . With quite a few more cria coming this year, the cost of the vial is less significant, and I may change my protocol.



Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
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pdhmaine

629 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  8:05:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit pdhmaine's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Jill,
If you have a Tractor Supply Company up near you, they keep it in a refrigerated case. Cuts the cost WAY down now that I no longer have to pay for overnight shipping. I call ahead to make sure they have it, as I do when I'm ready to buy the Ivomec.
Pam

Pamela Harwood
Longwoods Alpaca Farm, LLC
135 Longwoods Road
Cumberland, ME 04021
pdh@longwoodsalpacas.com
www.longwoodsalpacas.com

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cbornstein

252 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  8:08:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can anyone tell me what the dosage is per lb of body weight and how often it should be given? I need to make sure I do not over dose any of my Alpacas, they are all precious to me. Thank you everyone!!!

Christine A Bornstein
Alpacas by CBRB
Umatilla, FL
email: alpacasbycbrb@hotmail.com
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  9:35:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Pam, I was buying just the tetanus vaccine, not the CDT anyway - and I am reluctant to buy my vaccines from TSC, given the apparently poor quality control (at least at the Skowhegan TSC).

I think many people use 1/2 cc for cria, and 1 cc for weanlings and adults - vaccines are not dosed by body weight. Typical spacing on the first series is anything from two weeks apart to two months apart. Everyone does something a little differently. Contact your vet and see what they recommend.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
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APacaFunFarm

1193 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  9:58:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jillmcm
I think many people use 1/2 cc for cria, and 1 cc for weanlings and adults - vaccines are not dosed by body weight. Typical spacing on the first series is anything from two weeks apart to two months apart. Everyone does something a little differently. Contact your vet and see what they recommend.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell



Jill's right,

Vaccine is not dosed by body weight. It is given instead as an "immunologic stimulant", that is, a dose that is large enough to cause the immune system to respond.

Our original vet gave 2cc of vaccine to cria and adults. Thinking about it I originally gave cria 1cc, figuring this was enough to cause the immune system to respond.

I stopped giving CD&T altogether about 5 years ago. Risk wasn't worth the benefit on my farm.

Best regards,

Neil

A Paca Fun Farm
Dickerson,MD
www.apacafunfarm.com
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LibertyWool

132 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2010 :  10:07:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jill, Do you use Kennebec Veterinary Services? If so, they will sell you vaccines directly. Last year I bought from them and it was about the same as buying from Jeffers. I do purchase 3 at a time, so buying one bottle from KVS should be cheaper than ordering it.

I always think about shearing as a possible source of injury.
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cbornstein

252 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  02:16:25 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can you tell me where I can find information on this shot in regards to Alpacas? I have checked the Internet and their does not seem to be enough information on this. I need to also know if this shot is given how many times a year, plus if it is dangerous, I do not want my Alpacas exposed to it??? What does CD&T stand for? Thanks Everyone! I will also check with my VET.

Christine A Bornstein
Alpacas by CBRB
Umatilla, FL
email: alpacasbycbrb@hotmail.com
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LibertyWool

132 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  07:37:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The CD stand for Clostridium perfringens Types C and D. The T is for Tetanus Toxoid (ie vaccine).

Here is a link that explains it for sheep/goats.

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/CD-Tvaccinations.html

and this one talks about alpacas (schedule but no dose)

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vth/camelids/vax.aspx

According to the WSU link all vaccines are off label for llamas and alpacas. That is why you need to check the recommended dosage from your vet. The label on my barvac CD&T the dosage for lambs/goats is 2cc, for cows it is 5cc. As Jill said, you will get many opinions.

As with many injections, there is a risk of an anaphylaxis reactions which can be fatal. I do not know the rate, but I've done around 300 injections in sheep and lambs and have not had a bad reaction yet. I know one sheep farmer, that had one bad reaction and stopped using it. Last year she lost a lamb to enterotoxemia. She feels the risk of anaphylaxis is about the same risk as enterotoxemia.

You said, if it is dangerous, that you don't want your alpacas exposed to it. Well there is inherent risk in using a vaccine (ie a bad reaction) and in not using it with the possibility of a disease. A good friend of mine has had two cases of lock jaw in her goats, that is not something that I would want to have to treat in one of my animals, so I take the risk and use the vaccine. You will have to make the decision for yourself.
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  07:53:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I do use KVS and I often buy items directly from them now - didn't realize I could do so that first year, though. Like I said, I may revisit this topic with Matt this spring, but it comes down to weighing one unlikely event versus another.

The generally warm and humid climate in Florida is more conducive to tetanus bacteria in general than in Maine, Chenyn, so that may affect your decision. I would strongly suggest setting up an appointment with your vet to walk your property and discuss an overall plan for vaccinations, how often to check fecals, etc. Your vet knows what the most common risks, parasites, etc. you face are better than we do.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
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Christiane

2793 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  08:25:51 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When I used to give the CDT I gave 1/2 cc to crias for the first shot, then 1cc for the second and third shots. All adults got 2cc once a year, except for pregnant females, who got it 8 weeks before delivery. It does not depend on the animal's weight.

Christiane Rudolf
Tanglewood Farm
19741 Victory Lane
Fayetteville, Ohio 45118
(513) 875-3739
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highpeaksalpacas

1291 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  08:34:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit highpeaksalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We do females one month before birthing.
Cria at 3 mos. with a booster one month later.
Works for us...whether we need it or not..makes us feel better and we've never had issues. Just ONE more opinion! :)








Debbie
High Peaks Alpacas
Wilmington, NY
www.alpacanation.com/highpeaks.asp

You only live once...live with alpacas!
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Upperfarmnic

491 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  10:19:31 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My understanding of CD&T is 2 cc regardless. I'll doublecheck with my vet and the Evans manual. We didn't give them last year--the bottle we had expired. The one exception was a premie who couldn't stand. The owner of the herdsire came to help and brought an 8-way CD&T, which is not what we had. She also gave him a shot of Bose (which we don't keep on hand).

When we have given them it's been moms 4-6 weeks before birth and cria 2-3 weeks after, with booster 30 days later.

I think bought it last from Useful Lama, but maybe it was Valley Vet or KV Vet. It was a lot cheaper than from the vet by the syringe.

Nicole Carter
Upper Farm Alpacas
Pownal, ME
niccarr33@msn.com
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kipaca

769 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  4:22:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit kipaca's Homepage  Reply with Quote


The dosage is 2cc regardless of age or weight....everyone gets CD&T once a year......cria gets a dose at 3, 6 and 10 weks (pregnant dams no closer than 45 days before due date).
This is my Vet's protocol which I have followed for years and do not plan to change.....no ill effects ever!

Laila

Laila V Roukounakis
Graceland Alpaca Farm
Lisbon Falls, Maine
207-353-2171
info@gracelandfarm.com
www.alpacanation.com/graceland.asp
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highpeaksalpacas

1291 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2010 :  9:50:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit highpeaksalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It AMAZES me how many different theories/dosages etc..there are related to this particular vaccine... makes me wonder if any of it even does any good!( there are other threads re: same question)
:)

Debbie
High Peaks Alpacas
Wilmington, NY
www.alpacanation.com/highpeaks.asp

You only live once...live with alpacas!
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allamericanalpacas

4245 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2010 :  01:50:52 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Neil mentioned his regimen.
I look back to 2002, I bought a male, and in the health records, it said "we no longer give worming meds unless fecals say they are necessary."
I was appalled! No routine worming? It went against everything I had read.
Now, it's considered the norm.
Do some research. How many alpacas have died from Clostridium perfringens type C or D in the US? How many have died from tetanus?
How many have died from adverse reactions from CDT vaccines.
In my prior life as an instructor that certified other skydiving instructors, I stressed the importance of weighing "probability and outcome."
What is the probability of an event? What is the most likely outcome?
Based on those questions, you decide a course of action.
I will say that five years ago, I would have argued with anyone that held the opinion I do now.

Rick
--
Rick & Pati Horn
All American Alpacas
35215 Avenida Mañana
Murrieta, Ca. 92563
951-217-0306
http://aaalpacas.com/updates.html
alpacanation.com/aaalpacas.asp
Life is Good!
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Paradise

922 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2010 :  11:40:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit Paradise's Homepage  Reply with Quote
By 'do some research', I would check with alpaca and llama vets in your area, as well as vet schools or any state lab that does necropsies. Everything you find on these forums and online will tell you that alpacas don't get those strains, but you may find the answer is not quite so clear cut.

Laura Hillman
Paradise Alpacas
Hempstead, TX
979-826-9559
www.alpacanation.com/paradisealpacasoftx.asp
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