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 quest dose
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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2011 :  4:32:59 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hey, after reading most of the posts regarding fecals and worming and anemia and barber pole, I think I have my conclusion that my white gummed/eyelidded, non eating male is in need of cydectin, NOW. As the cydectin sheep drench is unavailable through the usual retail outlets, i.e. Tractor Supply (it is Sunday) of course, I have to go with Quest in order to medicate my boy. As the general conversation seems to be that the appropriate dose is 2x the sheep dose, and the the recommended rate of administration for Cydectin Oral Drench for sheep is 1 mL per 11 lb (5 kg) body weight to provide 0.2 mg moxidectin/2.2 lb (0.2 mg/kg) body weight, or .4mg moxidectin/2.2lb body weight. Which happens to be the dose level of Quest. So it looks to me like I can gauge it right off the weight nothches on tube. Have I got that right?
And does any body have a recommendation to keep him going til he recovers, assuming we are going down the right road. I have given him 1 cc pig iron, 1 cc 500mg/cc thiamine, 5 gram probios, and had started him on safegaurd last night, which I will discontinue.

I appreciate the help.

nyala

3317 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2011 :  8:52:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit nyala's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I didn't follow the weight notches on the tube plan usually the weight notches on horse drugs don't work. This is what someone posted back in the summer for quest:

160lbs. (Vet says to use 1.8mil?)
130lbs. (Vet says to use 1.4mil?)
78lbs. (Vet says to use .8mil?)

I probably would not stop the safeguard either you can use it with cydectin what safeguard dose are you using? If he's not eating you don't have much time he has to get eating again asap. I would see if your vet can do a field transfusion. All alpacas have the same blood type and one of your herd could donate to him. Is pig iron, iron dextran? Something that can help with iron absorption is cmpk drench for cows.

Ann

D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp
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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  08:22:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ann,

Thank you for your response. I have read many of your posts, they are so helpful.

I guess I shouldn't have said notches as much as weight markers. If what I wrote makes sense, it looks like Quest is 2x the sheep drench, i.e. .4mg moxidectin/kg for Quest, and .2mg moxidectin/kg for the drench.

Thank you for reposting the weight guidelines. I had already dosed the boy by the time your post was available. Hopefully I haven't done damage as I gave him the equine dose, for his weight, which I thought delivered the sheep drench dose x2.

The pig iron is the Durvet Iron Dextran-100,, I am wondering if I should or when I can give him another 1cc dose..?

Should I hit him again with the Probios? 5gm?

Thank you for the thought to continue Safegaurd (2 clicks which is 10 gms), will do so immediately..

I put his normal food in his trough, and some of the beet pulp,sunflower seed, alfafa pellet mix we give to our cria to put wt on, and he was up and eating some of it.

I have observed him use the bean pile positively twice..
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nyala

3317 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  10:11:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit nyala's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Iron can easily be overdosed but that sounds okay. What does he weigh? I probably would not give him an iron shot more frequently than once a week. The cmpk oral drench for cattle will help him absorb the iron. We dose safeguard at 50 mgs per kg with oral drench, so I'm not sure of the dose with paste although it's hard to overdose you really don't want to underdose with a possible barber pole problem. He needs to make more blood, to do that he needs iron and also b-complex injections. You could also get some b-complex for him at tractor supply or another similar store. I'd continue with probios. It's a good sign he's eating. Is he eating hay too?

Good luck with him and keep us posted!

Ann

D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp
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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  10:25:08 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks,

He is not eating his orchard grass yet, but is taking the alfalfa pellets out of the mix, (cautions of alpaca males and alfalfa secondary at this time, he has plenty of clean water??) I have the B complex, I did give him 1 cc of Durvet Maxi B 1000 two nights ago, (forgot to mention) should I repeat? I will go get the cmpk asap, good tip, thanks, I would prefer to not incur the transfusion cost, it looks like he is turning the corner,,his weight is down right now, he is about 110, probably scores a 2.5, ugh.

Thank you
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nyala

3317 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  12:34:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit nyala's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

He needs some kind of forage to ruminate well so maybe some other hay options? Sometimes just a different hay get's them so excited. Yeah give him more b-complex maybe every other day or so it can't hurt him.

Ann

D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp
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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  2:22:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks again
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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  5:54:13 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ann, (I hope)

I have secured some bodacious alfalfa that ought to get his attention and the cmpk cattle drench, I have given him the sheep dose 2ml, but you did say cattle,, should I give him 12ml which is the dose for cattle?

Update: he is up more, definitely more active, still very white,

Thanks
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nyala

3317 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  5:56:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit nyala's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi,

What is the concentration on the cmpk?

Ann

D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp
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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2011 :  7:17:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't see the usual concentration listing, the only germaine details that are listed are the volume, 354 mL, and the percent calcium chloride 40%, and then it just lists ingredients: water, calcium chloride, magnesium chloride, propylene glycol, postassium chloride, sodium hypophosphite and vitamin D3 supplement.

(he said to thank you for the alfalfa(he is enjoying it), the orchard grass was getting a tad boring)
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highpeaksalpacas

1291 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2011 :  05:32:38 AM  Show Profile  Visit highpeaksalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Have you actually done a fecal on him so you know what you are treating for? What you are doing will help deal with parasite problems associated w/the drugs you are using..which is good...but you should know what is causing this..and re-check after treatment in case something else is going on.. May need to test (or treat) for EPE (old namme)

Debbie Potter
High Peaks Alpacas
Wilmington, NY
www.alpacanation.com/highpeaks.asp

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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2011 :  05:45:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Debbie,

Yes, we did a fecal, and he was loaded with Strongyles, we have seen barber pole before so..

We have considered EPE, and in fact are still considering it, but are reluctant to hit him with the antibiotic out of fear of dirupting his gut fauna??
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highpeaksalpacas

1291 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2011 :  06:27:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit highpeaksalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Recheck the fecal after treatment..strongyles may be responsible for sure..just want you to make sure you knock out the problem and get this guy on the road to recovery..sounds like he is better already!

Debbie Potter
High Peaks Alpacas
Wilmington, NY
www.alpacanation.com/highpeaks.asp

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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2011 :  07:06:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will do,,Thank you Debbie
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bturner

181 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2011 :  08:10:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit bturner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We had a case of this on our farm recently and the vet treated her with Levamisole. It knocked it right out. Animal had over 400 strongyles per gram. Looked anemic. Thought about putting her down at one point. Went to zero in a couple weeks and she was a totally different animal. Very lethargic before and very active after. Had to keep her off the pasture with the other animals for a few weeks to make sure it did not spread. I hope your boy gets better.

E-mail me or call to discuss further.

Brian.....

Brian and Joy Turner
Our Little World Alpacas LLC
Grafton, OH
http://www.alpacanation.com/ourlittleworld.asp
www.ourlittleworldalpacas.com
(440) 477-4300
(440) 724-7070

Edited by - bturner on 11/02/2011 08:14:59 AM
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bturner

181 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2011 :  10:27:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit bturner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Any good news on this male?

Brian and Joy Turner
Our Little World Alpacas LLC
Grafton, OH
http://www.alpacanation.com/ourlittleworld.asp
www.ourlittleworldalpacas.com
(440) 477-4300
(440) 724-7070
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unalunafarm

18 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2011 :  09:04:00 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
no brian, only bad. we lost him, and are heartbroken. i suppose a transfusion would have helped. he rallied, we did all the things except the transfusion, even a blend of alfalfa, his usual meal, probiotics, etc, basically spoonfed, i think if i had not been as bashful about the la200, and gone with more iron, maybe. if it had been barber pole, the quest should have got it, no? As it turns out, my vet did concur with the dose, that 2x the goat is as marked on the quest, yet another lesson in the ongoing need for constant vigilance, my vet is trained in famacha, i am thinking about hosting a small clinic..
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bturner

181 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2011 :  7:19:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit bturner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We were very saddened to hear about Gerry. He was one of our very first cria. You know how much we loved him and I really wanted to see what his offspring looked like. He had the most wonderfully long white fleece. We may never know what really happened as with a lot of alpacas but I am sure he lived a comfortable life at our farm and at yours.

Brian.....

Brian and Joy Turner
Our Little World Alpacas LLC
Grafton, OH
http://www.alpacanation.com/ourlittleworld.asp
www.ourlittleworldalpacas.com
(440) 477-4300
(440) 724-7070
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Paradise

922 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2011 :  7:19:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Paradise's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Famacha is not nearly as useful in alpacas as in goats. By the time you see pale membranes in alpacas you already have a severe problem. A clinic on fecals and management would be more helpful.

Some areas are seeing resistance to moxidectin so you always need to do follow up fecals and not just assume the wormer got it. Also, the wormers are most effective on the adult worm so in a severely infested animal the larva can mature and start sucking the blood, and the animal can be getting re-infected, as well.

So sorry you lost your boy. I lost two animals to the nasty haemonchus when I first started out and it is heartbreaking, I know.

Laura Hillman
Paradise Alpacas
Hempstead, TX
979-826-9559
www.alpacanation.com/paradisealpacasoftx.asp
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Judith

4010 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2011 :  12:35:35 PM  Show Profile  Send Judith a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Is the moxidectin dose a one-time dose or is it repeated for a number of treatments? I'm using it for the first time on my farm because it appears that Safeguard is no longer effective (given the fecal results on re-testing).

Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Farm Bolivian Suri Alpacas
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2011 :  12:52:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One time dose, Judith, and be very careful about having accurate weights. You can repeat in ten days if needed.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.bagendsuris.com
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