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TheAlpacaRosa

571 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2012 :  4:17:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit TheAlpacaRosa's Homepage  Reply with Quote
farms that are currently butchering alpacas, withhold ivomec for 30 days....that's what I've been told anyhow.

Carolyn

Don Marquette
The AlpacaRosa
Ohio
www.alpacanation.com/thealpacarosa
www.TheAlpacaRosa.com
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jolee

283 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2012 :  6:25:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit jolee's Homepage  Send jolee an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
With all this talk about the lower prices you are not making the alpaca business very attractive. The lower prices have been here a few years and it isn't all bad. Sure we paid more for the girls we still have but it makes it easy to breed and sell the crias now. It also is about time we think of the fiber end of the business and sell our own USA alpaca items. We enjoy our alpacas just as much today as 9 years ago if not more. So why not sit back and enjoy the life we all wanted to get into. If we can't do shows oh well there is always the spin offs which again it what this business is all about. fiber JO


ALPACAS4U2C
alpacas4u2c@windstream.net
Lee & Joanne Mansfield
706-745-7344
www.alpacanation.com/alpacas4u2c.asp
90 CJ Calico Ln.
Blairsville, Ga 30512

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efalpacas

30 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  10:48:28 AM  Show Profile  Visit efalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks everyone for your replies. I really appreciate everyones honesty and view. After reading the posts there are a few things that I don't quite agree with and wanted to better understand your views. First, I'm confused about the "business" aspect of the alpaca "business". Basically, if you are advertised or on Alpacanation, you most likely believe you have a business. If you complete your taxes under a farm business, than you have a business, however I noticed that some people are confusing a business with a hobby. Some individuals had mentioned that they are in this business for the tax write offs, which I understand, however you can only perform at a loss for so long before it is no longer considered a business. Plus isn't the main objective in a business to earn money through the product (fiber, offspring, etc.)? Additionally, some people seemed to be so attached to their animals. I too understand how they are pets to you, however at what cost? If you are looking at your alpacas as a pet that you love and will only sell to a home in which the new owners can guarantee a perfect lifelong home, than I don't believe you have a legit business. I believe you have a hobby and hope that money comes with that hobby. I don't think losing hundreds of dollars a month is a business if you don't want to sell in fear that your animals will not go to a perfect home. By all means I think that any animal should go to a reputable home where they are treated kindly and provided with the care that they need, however you ultimately have to keep in mind these animals are livestock. Additionally, I don't believe selling an animal for a higher cost ultimately ends in an animal going to a much better home. I know of individuals who purchased a puppy for $1,800 and due to changing life circumstances they had to get rid of the dog. Also, some individuals commented that people are taking animals without understanding the care. I honestly feel you will get that in any business dealing with animals. Some people are just ignorant no matter what if you give them advice or not. Most individuals these days have computers and can easily find a care page for alpacas on the net.

My second misunderstanding on this posting is cost of average animals and meat production. I still cannot understand a price point of $2,000 for an average alpaca. You can purchase sheep and llamas for $300 and pull a higher profit than alpacas. Think about this... If I purchase a male and female alpaca and want to own them as a small side business for the sale of fiber and offspring the cost would be $4,000. So it would take approximately a year for an offspring. Lets say the offspring is male. I might want to sell it for $2,000. How long might I need to keep that alpaca before he sells for $2,000? So I will have to continue to provide wormer, vet care, feed both pelleted and hay, pasture space, and shearing costs until he sells. Lets say I get a female offspring. I may want to keep her. Now I have to figure out if I want to buy another male for $2,000 or a breeding fee. Well breeding fees are also very high, so I may end up paying $1,000 to $2,000 for a breeding fee. So my simple side business has so far cost a small fortune. I know money is not everything and enjoyment in the lifestyle plays a part, but wow quite a bit of money has been spent for a side business/hobby. Now what if I purchased a $250 sheep. Now if I get a male and female I just spend $500. The sheep will have offspring in approximately half the time and possibly give birth to multiple offspring. Let's say she had twins. I could sell one for the cost of a breeding and not have to spend more money. I could also continue to use the fleece. To me I wouldn't even spend $2,000 in a few years of owning a sheep. So I still don't understand the $2,000 price point when other animals may offer the same enjoyment at a lower cost. Could someone please help me understand this price point better and show me how you could make a profit? Also the lower cost doesn't always equate to a poor home for the animals. Finally, the meat market. No one in their right mind would ever consider raising alpacas for meat. The amount of time it takes for gestation and for an alpaca to be mature would be a rediculous business model for raising an animal for meat. If you set $300 to $1000 price points on alpacas they could sell more quickly to owners that could afford them and they most likely would be too expensive for meat sales. Additionally, all livestock will eventually have an end market of meat for a select few animals. I don't think lower costs ultimately will mean they all go to a meat market. I think this business needs to rethink the direction. I know you can love your animals, but we all need to understand as well that this is a business and if you feel you cant part with your animals, than you are running a hobby and you may keep your animals at a loss. I'm sure that I might offend people and I appologize now. I have always believed that honestly is the best policy. Please understand this is my view and yours may be different. I just feel that this information should be made known to new alpaca owners, because I have seen too many individuals get into this "business" only to learn they couldn't sell many animals. I believe offering better prices and looking at the business as a "business" more people could own alpacas and more animals could be bought and sold. Thanks.

Brad Bucher
East Flintville Alpacas
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bobvicki

2956 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  11:55:44 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Brad,

There are several problems with your posts regarding costs. you make the assumption if you pay $2K for a female you are going to also get a male for $2K, there are lots of good to excellent males being sold for very little money right now. Also you talk about buying a male and female to breed, I think most people would tell you to buy 2 bred females, and that puts breeding fees off for 18 months to 2 years and many breeders will throw in 2nd and even 3rd breeding's for free. Now you have put off breeding fees for up to 5 years. Even when you need to pay for a breeding fee right now on AN there are about 1200 huacaya males and over 200 suri males listed with fees of $500 or less, and that's only here on AN and does not include ARIList, Alpaca Street or Open herd. There are also over 2000 females listed here on AN for sale from $1 to $2000 and almost 3000 males listed for the same category!

You also make the statement that honesty is the best policy and apply the $2000 price point straight across the board then followed by "your opinion",
quote:
I have always believed that honestly is the best policy. Please understand this is my view and yours may be different. I just feel that this information should be made known to new alpaca owners, because I have seen too many individuals get into this "business" only to learn they couldn't sell many animals. I believe offering better prices and looking at the business as a "business" more people could own alpacas and more animals could be bought and sold.


People are selling alpacas but you make it sound like no one is, again your opinion based on assumptions that you make using your logic and you completely ignore the tax situation of the business including depreciation on equipment, supplies, feed and buildings. You also ignore any income from fiber or value added fiber items, or even trading young males for non related stock.

When I read your comments I can't help but think that you are using your "discussion" as an attempt to sway new people from getting into alpacas by creating the allusion that anyone who has an alpaca for sale at $2000 is dishonest. That is how it comes across to me.

The best advice for anyone thinking about purchasing alpacas (or anything else) is to do research, visit breeders, attend a few shows and then visit with an accountant.

Bob

Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
10371 N 2210 Road
Clinton, Oklahoma 73601
641-831-3576
alpaca@htswireless.com
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp
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efalpacas

30 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  2:04:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit efalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bob,
My objective is not to sway "new" buyers of owning alpacas. My goal is for the current owners to become a little more realistic with their pricing. I also did a bit of fact finding and found that all females listed between $2,000 and $5,000 is over 5,000 animals, which is a larger percentage than the range from $1,000 to $2,000. So according to those results, more people believe their animals are worth $2,000 or more, when the market is saying that is not the case. Also, yes you can get breed backs and such to save money. However with every cria on your property that you don't sell is another animal to pay for care, feed, vet. expenses, etc. Additionally, you stated...
(Quote) People are selling alpacas but you make it sound like no one is, again your opinion based on assumptions that you make using your logic and you completely ignore the tax situation of the business including depreciation on equipment, supplies, feed and buildings. You also ignore any income from fiber or value added fiber items, or even trading young males for non related stock.

So Bob what you are saying is that ONLY alpaca owners can allow you to own a farm business where you can depreciate equipment, supplies, feed, buildings, etc.? You can do that raising sheep, goats, cows, horses, and the list goes on. You can also make an income on wool from a sheep and live the same lifestyle at a fraction of the cost. You tell me that there are animals available at lower prices. Well of course they are available at lower costs. However there are thousands and thousands of alpacas in this country. The numbers you provided me with are a small percentage of animals that are priced low. Don't you think a greater majority should be lowered in price? I know out of those thousands and thousands of alpacas, what the top few percent are truely breeding stock and show stock, so what are the remaining alpacas? I'm not saying they should be disregarded but they should be priced more appropriately in my eyes. I would really appreciate a response in which someone can show me how purchasing a pregnant female alpaca at $2,000 with maybe two breedbacks could become a profitable business. On the other hand take a price of a pregnant sheep $250 and factor the same logic and see which one could earn more money in five years.


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jolee

283 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  3:50:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit jolee's Homepage  Send jolee an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
Bob your last view is right on and I agree. Why would any one go on and on about the business, money and so on if they are not even in business any more. I think enough has been said from folks that are in business and enjoy it with or with out the high dollar sales. Money is there if you want to make it. JO


ALPACAS4U2C
alpacas4u2c@windstream.net
Lee & Joanne Mansfield
706-745-7344
www.alpacanation.com/alpacas4u2c.asp
90 CJ Calico Ln.
Blairsville, Ga 30512

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delphi

180 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  4:32:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"I would really appreciate a response in which someone can show me how purchasing a pregnant female alpaca at $2,000 with maybe two breedbacks could become a profitable business."

It seems this conversation is referring to "alpacas" as if they were all very similar. Except for the minute % alluded to that are worth more.

Let's consider horses. Some are being given away - maybe they are old, difficult, or the owner is desperate. Some sell for $2000. Maybe they are decent riding horses, and have nice personalities. Some sell for $200,000. A star show jumper. A fantastic Arabian stud. Some sell for $2,000,000. Race horse country. What is the right price point for a "horse?"

Most people that try to make a living raising horses (which are much more expensive to manage than alpacas), fail. Especially now in this challenging economy. But there are still those doing just fine thank you. Maybe they sell riding horses, maybe they train, maybe they teach lessons. Maybe they campaign show jumpers or arabian show horses. Maybe they breed race horses. None of it is easy, and it all takes skill and some luck.

Why would one assume that alpaca businesses all fit into one mold? That alpacas should have a single low price point? Or, that just anyone should be able to run a successful alpaca business?

Alpacas come in many varieties. There are problem alpacas. There are pets. There are good fiber alpacas. There are fantastic fiber alpacas. There are good show alpacas - with potential to produce a champion. There are champions. Then there are Champion producers - finally, with those we are talking the top 1%.

You'll need to learn a bit more about the alpaca businesses that people are involved in - before making assumptions and painting with such a broad brush. Not that simple.
Perhaps you assume others have had the same experiences as you - when they may have approached their alpaca business very differently.

Been making a living on alpacas for some time now
- and I hope to continue.

Linda

Linda Bat
Delphi Alpacas
Coaldale, CO



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efalpacas

30 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  5:04:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit efalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
WOW! I feel like some people really don't like someone with a strong view of the business such as mine. Jolee- Quoted "Why would any one go on and on about the business, money and so on if they are not even in business any more. I think enough has been said from folks that are in business and enjoy it with or with out the high dollar sales. Money is there if you want to make it."
If you read my previous postings I shared that although I am no longer in the business, I try to help other farms sell their animals. It is extremely difficult to try and sell alpacas for people when they don't come to terms with appropriate market prices. Anyway, I do have to say that I felt a bit offended by this statement. I feel as if you are trying to discredit me in some way, so that potential buyers may think my views are from left field. I know that I'm not the only one that shares this view. Yet I know many also disagree and that is fine, I don't feel the need to try and discredit someone. Also, you shared Jolee quote "With all this talk about the lower prices you are not making the alpaca business very attractive." I can't help but think that you are trying to turn your head on an issue that frankly should be addressed. I also wanted to thank Linda for her insight. I appreciate someone who shared their opposing views in a constructive way that helps me understand their thinking. I understand not all alpacas fit into the same mold, but yet again its hard to justify why some people are selling similiar quality animals in the hundreds while others are in the high thousands. Like I stated before I just feel like their needs to be more consistancy in this "business". I will stop posting unless someone asks me to respond. I didn't mean for anything to be offensive or rude, I just wanted for people to share their ideas and views about a controvertial subject area in this business.
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jolee

283 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  5:17:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit jolee's Homepage  Send jolee an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
Didn't mean to sound rude or anything else. We have been in the business 9 yrs and love it as much as the first day and still making money.

I love seeing new folks jumping into the business with lower prices. Wish it had been like this for us. Don't even mind other folks opinion and with that I am off to give belly baths. Jo


ALPACAS4U2C
alpacas4u2c@windstream.net
Lee & Joanne Mansfield
706-745-7344
www.alpacanation.com/alpacas4u2c.asp
90 CJ Calico Ln.
Blairsville, Ga 30512

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tortkid43

533 Posts

Posted - 07/02/2012 :  5:37:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit tortkid43's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Brad I just wanted to say that I enjoyed this conversation and your take on this very important matter..!! I just wanted to thank you for your points and the lively conversation..

I am sure you know this but if you walk into a supermarket and say that "All Tomato's Are Red", You will get several different groups with experts in their own minds wanting to challenge you and argue their points that "Not All Tomato's Are Red", or that "Some of us don't even like Tomato's", Or perhaps that that "ol fat one-eyed Texan doesn't even know how to spell Tomatoes"...!! Keep it up and don't get frustrated some of us enjoy listening to different takes on subjects involving our industry without it becoming personal especially when there are so many who love to make assumptions on whether it's spelled Tomato or Tomatoe..Depending of course on how you word each sentence that you write .!!

Mike

Mike and Maggie Carabajal
Rancho De La Luz Alpacas
Elgin, Tx
www.alpacanation.com/ranchodelaluzalpacas.asp
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bobvicki

2956 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  01:01:09 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

quote:
So Bob what you are saying is that ONLY alpaca owners can allow you to own a farm business where you can depreciate equipment, supplies, feed, buildings, etc.? You can do that raising sheep, goats, cows, horses, and the list goes on. You can also make an income on wool from a sheep and live the same lifestyle at a fraction of the cost.

Brad here is the problem I did not say that only alpaca owners could do these things, and I don't think anyone reading my post could interpret it that way. I simply mentioned that you left them out of the equation when giving your opinion.
quote:
The numbers you provided me with are a small percentage of animals that are priced low. Don't you think a greater majority should be lowered in price? I know out of those thousands and thousands of alpacas, what the top few percent are truly breeding stock and show stock, so what are the remaining alpacas? I'm not saying they should be disregarded but they should be priced more appropriately in my eyes.

So if a person doesn't really want to sell an animal they should price it where you think is right?

I think you can get more sheep for same amount of money as two $2000 alpaca's which according to your point of view would result in being able to make a profit, but common sense seems to say you also need more land, have more expenses in medicines, vets, feed, need bigger vehicles and trailers using more gas and have to work harder.

Bob


Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
10371 N 2210 Road
Clinton, Oklahoma 73601
641-831-3576
alpaca@htswireless.com
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp
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thoffman

9 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  05:21:10 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A very good discussion. Thanks for all the information and different view points.

I agree. don't think that alpaca meat is going to be a huge market. I guess it's more popular on the South American continent. That being the case, what does one do with the multiple males and undesireable animals with poor fiber? Is there that much of a market for them? If it were a goat, I would take it to the sale. There is no auction for alpacas here.

The current alpaca business model depends greatly on new farmers or old farmers adding to the herd and fiber sales. What does an alpaca farmer do if they can't move their animals? Someone compared alpaca prices to horse prices. The big difference here is that horses are multi-functional. The race, they work, they provide recreation, they can be ridden, they can be showed. An alpaca is a bit of a one trick pony - at least at this point. They eat grass, they poop, they have babies and they have fiber.

I'm sure there are ways of making money with the animals. I know people who have done it and I'm sure there are many here in this forum as well who have been successful. I understand the tax aspects of the farm and that certainly helps. I would be interested in hearing more about the business side of alpaca farming; marketing, management, sales, etc. Maybe that is a topic for another discussion thread.

Thanks again for the lively discussion...

T.R. Hoffman
Red Clay Farm
Lugoff, SC
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vintagealpacas

701 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  08:57:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit vintagealpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Brad, here is a bit of NEWS for you from a 3rd generation family farmer... you can operate "in the red" or in other words, take a loss on your business for as many years as you want! The IRS is NOT automatically flagging those who take a loss for "x" number of years ( as so many fear), in fact, I have NEVER seen my family farm declare a profit... EVER. At the end of the year, the accountant looks over the numbers and says "here is what you have to spend on something for the business, or you will have to report a profit and pay taxes on it". So, buy a truck, buy a car, buy some other machinery - or alpacas - or whatever. See, the simple fact is that if you have the receipts to back all the deductions, and you can show that without a doubt you are operating to make money (not necessarily a profit), then you can declare a loss over and over and over... my net carryover loss at this point is over $200,000 so I don't think I will be declaring a profit for a VERY long time... so, if you can recoup all of your federal and state taxes by redoing and back filing for the past 3 years, I think that helps people get started with alpacas. And, I have to mention, even when operating at a loss, you can live a very comfortable life style. When we had the nursery, we paid ourselves 6 digit salaries... and then took a loss on the business every year. Yes, we had to pay personal income taxes on the salaries... but the perks like driving a new car every year and letting the nursery pay for many expenses like cell phones, gas, lawn equipment and travel played into the lifestyle. As long as I visited another greenhouse and made it a sales call, I was clear to write off that trip to Miami.... you have to be tax savy. As an alpaca farm, I now combine my personal and business taxes since I am an LLC, and I DO NOT take a payroll check from the company... I simply pay all the bills out of 1 account and report expenses to the accountant at the end of the year. SO, please stop telling people they have to report a profit at some point, because that is simply NOT TRUE. They DO NOT have to report a profit, and they can live very comfortably.** this is not directed to just you Brad... many posts all over the internet tell alpaca breeders they have to report a profit within a certain number of years... again, NOT TRUE.
Kim Rassi
Vintage Alpacas

Kimberly Rassi
Vintage Alpacas
alpacanation.asp/vintage
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joeykatp

307 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  11:42:52 AM  Show Profile  Visit joeykatp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sheep are sheep! Personally, I don't think they are as cute as alpacas, or have the personality and charm. One thing I have noticed and have actually read about, is that alpacas are pretty hardy animals. I have had few health issues and no deaths yet. (NO JINX here, I hope!) They are very easy to take care of as far as livestock goes - little maintenance except for hay, water, and manure removal (which is way easier than horses or cows). They are very efficient food processors and require little hay per day per animal. If you want a livestock tax deduction, alpacas are it!!!
Even though I still cannot get my ag exemption because you must sell at least $10,000.00 of product/per year in New York State, and I am currently working another full time job so I cannot devote the time I want to marketing, etc. (I thought I'd be retiring this year and be able to delve into this endeavor - didn't plan for the recession -that's another story). Anyway, the ag exemption only helps with your property taxes and I'll get it someday.
We have gotten back money on our income taxes every year because of the deductions from alpacas. They still cost money to feed, etc... not to mention the physical labor we are not paid for. But, right now I think financially we are about even. However, I believe if I was able to do 4H, have a store (not just do farmer's markets here and there), and do some real marketing, I could make a profit from this business.
I have currently priced most of my animals very low because I cannot market them properly and need to downsize, but that isn't everybody's situation. New buyers have the opportunity to act on "good buys" just like any other products out there. Yes, they are taking advantage of my situation, but it also works out for me if I can decrease my work load since I have decided not to retire early. You can find examples of these types of business dealings in many other avenues all over the world, not just in alpacas. It's simple economics.

Kathy Paternoster
Our Father's Farm
New Hampton, NY
(845)374-7712
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box cars

534 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  11:52:38 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
We have been in alpacas for about 15 years and never made a profit, made a lot of money and alpacas can eat up a lot of money in no time. We are in our 70s and still,having fun with our alpacas. My wife and I do 5 acres of hay by hand 3 times a year.

Ken

Ken & Pat Humbert
Pondview Alpaca Ranch
5088 Booth Rd.
China, Mi. 48054
N-42.73 W-82.51

Edited by - box cars on 07/03/2012 11:53:55 AM
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Judith

4010 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  1:47:08 PM  Show Profile  Send Judith a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by box cars

We are in our 70s and still,having fun with our alpacas. My wife and I do 5 acres of hay by hand 3 times a year.

Ken

Ken & Pat Humbert
Pondview Alpaca Ranch
5088 Booth Rd.
China, Mi. 48054
N-42.73 W-82.51


Wow, Ken! You're my idol forever! How do you and Pat do 5 acres of hay a year by hand? I'd love to start doing my own hay, but I have a few things to work through first. Like, I have no tractor, mower, tetter, baler or wagon. Like, I work all by myself and just can't envision doing all that alone. Like, I'm as lazy as a cat on a sunny windowsill -- I can dream and plan all day, but implementation? Fergetaboutit. I let my neighbors take whatever hay they want from my pastures and the empty acreage on the other side of the ridge, but because they work off-farm, the hay is usually too stemmy by the time they have a chance to get to it (which is why I don't ask for part of it for myself! Their sheep love it, but my alps are too spoiled LOL). Kudos to the two of you! Wish I had your get-up-and-work!

Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Farm Bolivian Suri Alpacas
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp
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Ian Watt

909 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  5:14:45 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It seems to me that there are several models being projected here and each has its own rights and wrongs attached toit - no one model is going to be 'the' industry though I suspect the tail that will wag the dog in the not-too-distant future will be close to the sheep model than any other.
Pure numbers will demand an end-product market and the need for profit will feed thatmarket in my view - and I have yet to see a model that can tell me where 100,000 males are going to be farmed in 2016! And 120,000 the year after and 132,000 the year after that ... who is going to buy them, who is going to have the land, who is going to keep them until they die naturally? Surely not the people sho breed them?
Great conversation folks!
Cheers

Ian Watt
Alpaca Consulting USA
www.alpacaconsultingUSA.com
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JimR

1046 Posts

Posted - 07/03/2012 :  9:16:27 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Quote from Brad
"If you read my previous postings I shared that although I am no longer in the business, I try to help other farms sell their animals. It is extremely difficult to try and sell alpacas for people when they don't come to terms with appropriate market prices."
Basically Brad is brokering alpacas for other farms and he is not being very successful at it, so he is venting because he feels if the owners he is "helping to sell for" lowered their prices on their alpacas he could sell them, and than make commission through volume or whatever other deal he has going with the owners.
Brad I broker, not as much as I used to because I do not have the time and it isn't fair to owners if you can't devote 100% to it, but I will tell you, the right animals sell themselves and it is up to you to chose the right animals to broker. You can try to sell them for a dollar (as you can see on the openherd auctions) and they still won't sell if it isn't what the buyers are looking for. In today's market just any alpaca isn't going to sell, and farms need to recognize that and breed to the market, but that's another discussion..being in retail, and being and alpaca farmer I have learned that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay.
If you are trying to broker which I believe you are from your posts..give it up..your not the right person to sell alpacas, you have zero love for them, and to be successful you have to at least love the product, and believe in that product 100%. You proved by your posts you really don't even like alpacas, or believe in alpaca farming at all. I would suggest you contact sheep farmers as that appears to livestock you truly have enthusiasm for:)

Susan Rempe
Four Corners Alpacas
Bloomfield NM 87413
505 360-8375
River11524@msn.com
www.AlpacaNation.com/fourcorners.asp
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Judith

4010 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2012 :  07:08:10 AM  Show Profile  Send Judith a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Susan, I think you're crossing the line between critiquing someone's position and flaming. I don't believe that anything Brad said was construable as he doesn't like alpacas or doesn't believe in the industry. His examples about sheep were just that: examples of how a similar industry (wool) functions. I didn't see any disparaging of alpacas or the overall alpaca industry in his comments, simply a recognition that alpacas are livestock and he is wondering how he (or any of us) can justify higher prices in the current market. If you can't give him some help in distinguishing why one alpaca is priced at $2K and a very similar one is being marketed at $500, then you're not really addressing his question.

Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Farm Bolivian Suri Alpacas
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp
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efalpacas

30 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2012 :  10:29:35 AM  Show Profile  Visit efalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Judith, I appreciate your kind words. I know you may not agree with my views either, but I appreciate the fact that although my views may be different you still feel that I should have a voice. By all means my discussion was not meant to be negative or rude, but to simply get people to see the business in a different light because of the downed economy. Frankly, Susan I have no time of day to address your comments, because clearly you didn't read all the postings carefully and that is fine with me.

To everyone- I'm not looking for people to drop ALL their prices and give away their animals. I merely want people to re-evaluate their animal's price and see if it still makes sense in this current market. For example if you are selling a $10,000 alpaca who has maybe won a second or a third place ribbon in its past, do you still think in this current market that this animal is still worth $10,000? By all means if the alpaca produced champions, yeah maybe its worth that price nowadays. If the animal just comes from good genetics and you "think" its worth $10,000 then so be it. I think when you are pricing an animal you also need to look at the animal through the potential buyers eyes in this current market. Would they be able to make a profit within a few years at that price? If the answer is maybe or no, you might want to set the prices at a more reasonable offer. If the answer is yes, because the animal produces amazing quality offspring and fleece and you know they could sell the crias, then by all means list it for a high price. My whole point in this rambling is for people to look at their animals and see if they truely are worth the price they are valuing their animal in this current market. Additionally, are they also thinking of this as a business or a hobby because that makes a major difference when you are thinking of selling animals. I know that each and every alpaca has its good and bad qualities, and needs to be priced accordingly. But at how much of a difference is my discussion, pricing at an extra few hundred dollars or a few thousand? That price difference makes a big difference. Thanks to everyone who posted a constructive comment that either agreed or disagreed with my views. For those that chose to get personal or attack, you are not worth my time to address and justify my views.
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