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 Cria that was septic
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Clay Leibold

1 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2006 :  11:06:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Clay Leibold's Homepage
Hello everyone,
This is my first time on the forum. Just wanted to get an opinion. I'm a new breeder and just had my first set back. We had our first male cria born on the farm last Tuesday. It was a long delivery and we had to help the dam. He was weak and a bit hypoxic, among other things. After a plasma transfusion and a long night with the vet, he seemed to be getting better. His IgG was over 3,000 and blood tests were pretty good. The Vet did say he was a bit septic. I'm sorry to say on the fifth day we lost the little tropper. He suddenly turned very weak and passed on very quickly. I was curious to learn the definition of the term septic. Any help would be appreciated. As a side note, we have 2 healthy female crias from this fall breeding season. Thank you.
Clay Leibold
Pine Creek Alpacas
Orwigsburg, PA

allamericanalpacas

4245 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2006 :  11:29:16 PM  Show Profile
Hi Clay,
Sorry for the loss.
Septic (sepsis) is a fancy term for massive infection.
Say a cria is born in a poop pile or something else as nasty, the infection can enter through the umbillus. We treat the navel with nolvasan (or iodine) but it can still enter.
The IgG tells us he had good passive transfer, but there was a pathogen (germ) he wasn't prepared for.
Not every cria or other creature born will survive, it's just the way it is.
Enjoy the 2 girls you got

Rick
--
Rick & Pati Horn
All American Alpacas
35215 Avenida Mañana
Murrieta, Ca. 92563
http://aaalpacas.com/updates.html
http://alpacanation.com/aaalpacas.asp
(951) 679-7795
Life is good!
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thesilversuri

277 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2006 :  05:30:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit thesilversuri's Homepage
Rick,
Let’s just say for a moment that I was writing this morning of the cria’s birth. The cria showed the symptoms that Clay mentioned. I would go on to say that my Vet suggested he was septic. What action might you suggest I take to stabilize the cria?
Thank you,
Scott

The Silver Suri
Scott & Christina Campanella
1185 West Street Road
West Chester Pa 19382
610.793.0469
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daleppard

150 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2006 :  08:16:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit daleppard's Homepage
Get them to a vet. They need some strong antibiotics and fast. It is an infection that is spreading through their body. I am dealing with this right now and just took a cria to Purdue for treatment. Make sure they stay hydrated as well. Keep a close watch on their eyes. Running eyes or a milky color seems to happen first in crias that are septic. ( I just learned all this last night at the hospital.)

Hope that helps.

Brent Barnhart
Shearwood Forest Alpacas
Mishawaka,IN. 46545
574-257-4954
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mec

417 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2006 :  10:58:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit mec's Homepage
First, I'm very sorry that you lost your cria. Been there and it never gets easier. I always feel that I must have overlooked something that could have made a difference.

I do agree that aggressive use of antibiotics can make all the difference. At 2 hours old, one of my male crias was going septic. He was limp. By the time the vet got here (30 minutes), he had really gone downhill, almost totally unresponsive. First she gave him antibiotics and then, immediately tubed plasma (which I had ready to use)into his stomach. She also injected something else, but can't remember what offhand (maybe Banamine). He rallied somewhat. Daily bottle feeding ,antibiotics for five days and short visits to his dam completed his comeback . In two weeks, I had him back out with his dam full-time and nursing.



Peggy Chaillet
Alpacaville Farm
peggy@chaillet.org
www.alpacanation.com/alpacaville.asp
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thesilversuri

277 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2006 :  6:07:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit thesilversuri's Homepage
I didn't mean to be thoughtless. It is a terrible loss, the idea alone scares the hec out of me. I am sorry for your loss,
Scott

The Silver Suri
Scott & Christina Campanella
1185 West Street Road
West Chester Pa 19382
610.793.0469
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Freddi

864 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2006 :  6:21:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit Freddi's Homepage
Sorry to hear you lost your little guy. I

I agree with Rick's definition. I'm not a 100% sure, but I believe that a below normal temperature may be an indication of septic infection.

Did you do a necropsy on little "trooper"??

Bless those little girls of yours and may they give you many healthy, strong cria!

Peace!

Freddi Dunleavey
Alpacas of Dun-Dor Woods
101 Kelly Road
Arkville, NY 12406
845-254-4602
www.alpacanation.com/dun-dorwoods.asp
freddiandgo@yahoo.com
Contributing Author to: Alpaca News Today


"Dun-Dorable in the Catskills of NYS"

845-254-4602
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erick

36 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2006 :  9:59:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit erick's Homepage
Hi Clay,
Sorry to hear of your loss. I know that you have a very competent camelid vet and that she did everything she could for your little guy. Sometimes even a necropsy doesn't tell us what went wrong, and believe me it doesn't get any easier to lose one. Enjoy your healthy girls!

Eric

Sweet Fleece Farm
Hamburg, PA
www.alpacanation.com/sweetfleece.asp
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whalpaca

1 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2006 :  2:24:40 PM  Show Profile
Hi Clay,
Sorry to hear about your loss.
I just experienced something similar, I had a little male who died on 10/31, he was five days old. On Day one, this guy was up and nursing within an hour, running around and showing all signs of a healthy cria. By day three he started losing weight. My vet suspected septicemia. The little guy had a low temp. (95), no energy, he was losing weight, and he had red around his eyelids and his gums were red. We did a plasma transfusion, increased his milk supplementation and started him on antibiotics. Not to mention all the various blood work that was done.
It's always difficult when you lose an alpaca. The constant thought of what could I have done to have prevented this, or what didn't I do. Because of these thoughts (and other reasons), I chose to have a necropsy done, which in this case was very helpful. We found out that he had a congenital heart defect (PAD). There was nothing we could have done in this particular situation.
This was another learning experience for me.
Take care Clay.


Pam Fife
Windy Hollow Alpacas
Logan, UT
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allamericanalpacas

4245 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2006 :  6:51:15 PM  Show Profile
Hi Scott,
Sorry, I missed your question earlier.
If your vet suspected sepsis, you wouldn't need other advise, the vet would start him on a wide spectrum antibiotic.
Our vet's antibiotic of first choice is good old penn.
If the vet's out of town, and I suspect an infection of any sort, I reach for the penn, dose according to Dr Evan's manual, and call the vet when she's back in town.
If she's in town, I call her, she has me do the same thing, and on 90%, she never needs to visit.

Rick
--
Rick & Pati Horn
All American Alpacas
35215 Avenida Mañana
Murrieta, Ca. 92563
http://aaalpacas.com/updates.html
http://alpacanation.com/aaalpacas.asp
(951) 679-7795
Life is good!
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thesilversuri

277 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2006 :  7:24:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit thesilversuri's Homepage
OK, Thanks.

The Silver Suri
Scott & Christina Campanella
1185 West Street Road
West Chester Pa 19382
610.793.0469
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Downy Alpacas

15 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2006 :  05:57:56 AM  Show Profile
I'm jumping in a bit late,
Hope all is well with your other 2 girls. And so sorry to hear about the loss of you cria.
But I thought I would tell you the actual definition of sepsis.
It's short for "septicemia", which is an acute infection in the blood /lymph system., which leads to all systems failure ie: kidneys, liver etc. In all life it comes on very quickly, and for little guys with little immunity , antibiotics just isn't quick enough, for the organs in the body have already shut down and died. So, know, that you didn't do anything wrong, or "missed" something.
Take Care,
Janice Grommett
Downy Alpacas

PS, we just had a little,or should I say BIG scare with out little guy. He was in Icu at the Vet hospital for 1 week, IV's,Plasma, the works. Thought we were going to lose him, but no growth in the blood cultures,and then perked up. We think he got dehydrated, became acidodic. Anyways, he is our first cria too. Now I'm watching his every move.
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janechristie

1475 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2006 :  5:01:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit janechristie's Homepage
We also had one this Fall, with a cria born to a maiden, face-first in the poop pile. We found her within half an hour of birth, and I have never seen anything like it. She was black - must have rolled over and over. She even had it inside her ears! Took one look at her, knew that mess was not coming off with a towel, ran a warm bath and put her straight in it. Dried her, dipped the cord with Nolvasan repeatedly, and she was up and nursing well in short order. Underneath it all, she was actually rose grey!

The next day, she seemed a bit lethargic. Even though her temperature was perfectly normal, I just wasn't happy with her behavior, so we took her to our local camelid vet. If she was one of ours, I would probably have put her on antibiotics immediately, but she is a client animal, so didn't want to make that decision for them! Camelid vet agreed that it looked like early septicemia and we were able to nip it in the bud. She responded very well to antibiotic treatment and was back home in a few days. Now weighs about 30lbs at less than a month and is the picture of health.

So even if the temp. is good, if they aren't "perky" they need close attention and fast intervention. We have had one other cria with septicemia - his dam had a uterine infection and he was born with it and did not survive, even after several days of heavy duty antibiotics and IV fluids. He showed signs of neurological damage at birth and his first poop was diarrhea, so he was pretty far gone before he was even born, poor little guy. He was the first cria born to our farm, which was pretty heartbreaking, but a valuable learning experience, nevertheless.

Jane.

P.S. Another "clue" to infection with the little rose grey girl is that her stomach was tender to the touch - she would spit and squeal when I put my hand under her belly to put her coat on.

www.thistledownalpacas.com
Ph: (804)-784-4837 Fax: (804)-784-4839

Edited by - janechristie on 11/23/2006 2:15:51 PM
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julieandken

749 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2006 :  3:53:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit julieandken's Homepage
Sorry about your loss Clay,
We lost our first cria, a gorgeous little male, and were devastated. We especially felt guilty because we were inexperienced and felt that we must have done something wrong.
We have been very fortunate since.
One thing that helps us at least psychologically is our barn cam. At least it is nice to know that we can watch mom and cria like hawks. We keep them penned then first 3 days and let then into their own pasture for brief intervals. We liberally milk mom and re-feed and supplement cow colostrum the first few hours if we even have the slightest concern that we are not seeing the milk moustache or interval of feeding that we are comfortable with, especially with a first time mom.
It's probably ridiculous but if we have a first time mom we put her in the newborn pasture a few weeks before birth. I don't know that the little butt sniffing that goes on with neonates is helpful...I'm sure that nature has much better designs, but it does make us feel better. We do IgGs if we are concerned, if for no other reason than to relieve our own neurosis...have never done a plasma transfusion.
We also use nolvasan 3 times a day, clean moms udder with nolvasan before the first nursing and use E-coliser with C 3ccs three times a day for 3 days.
I have to admit that this is all Julies routine. She is our midwife and likes to say that the first dose of E-coliser goes in orally before the cria hits the ground...no kidding she runs after mom with a dry towel in hand. I don't think that the San Francisco Giants have a better infield.
We don't hesitate to call our vet if we have any concerns.
I wish for you that this might be your last cria loss.
Sincerely,
Ken


Julie and Ken Rosenfeld, MD
Renaissance Ridge Alpacas
Mount Aukum, CA
www.renaissanceridgealpacas.com
530-620-7934
http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=12721
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julieandken

749 Posts

Posted - 11/23/2006 :  3:56:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit julieandken's Homepage
Oops, that should be E coliser with C once a day for 3 days.

Julie and Ken Rosenfeld, MD
Renaissance Ridge Alpacas
Mount Aukum, CA
www.renaissanceridgealpacas.com
530-620-7934
http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=12721
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