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 2. Alpaca Healthcare & Nutrition
 sick alpaca
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frank

19 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2008 :  10:18:25 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hello my white boy is very sick and my vet is out of town on vacation he is stumbleing around like he was drunk. i went through dr evans book and talked with the other vet in his clinic who dosnt deal with camels and we are not sure if it is PEM or meningeal worm how do you test for each and what is the treatment for each. i put him on vet b complex which is high in thiamine in case its pem and gave him a shot of ivermectim yesterday and a shot dectomax today has anyone dealt with this. all books give prevatives but not cure

Paradise

922 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2008 :  10:46:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Paradise's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Frank;
Have you taken his temperature? Check his gums and under his eyelids; they should be a pretty pink. Anemia can also cause a drunk looking gait. Where are you located? If in M-worm country have you used any preventatives? Is he still eating, drinking, peeing, pooping, chewing cud? Any weight loss recently?
If it is PEM you need 3-5 mg/kg of thiamine and most B-complexes are not very high. That comes out to about 300mg or 350mg of thiamine for 150 pound alpaca.
Have you changed any feed or hay lately? Sometimes endophytes (fungus) in fescues and rye grasses can cause what you are describing, as well as other plant poisonings and chemical poisonings. If it is the endophyte the thiamine will help, but you need to get him away from the hay or grass causing the problem.
If you post your location and phone number, you will probably get some calls. I have to go to work quite early tomorrow morning, but there are some people that read posts on here and reach out.
Immediate things I would do is get temp, etc., give some probiotics, and get a fecal as soon as possible to rule out intestinal parasites.
Good luck.

Laura Hillman
Paradise Alpacas
Hempstead, TX
979-826-9559
www.alpacanation.com/paradisealpacasoftx.asp
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Paradise

922 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2008 :  10:50:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Paradise's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I forgot...dectomax and ivermectin injections are for prevention. He also needs Safeguard or Panacur at 50mg/kg and Banamine. I am not sure of the complete current M-worm protocol.

Laura Hillman
Paradise Alpacas
Hempstead, TX
979-826-9559
www.alpacanation.com/paradisealpacasoftx.asp
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frank

19 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2008 :  11:54:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
his temp is fine and his gums and eyelids are fine he is eating very well and he isnt dehidrated he hasnt lost any weight and other than the disorientation seams to be fine im not sure what is going on and scared as you know what. last month i lost my two girls but we fig out what that was we had a storm and it blew in some poison leaves from sumac trees and they ate them the llama didnt eat them so she was fine and the angora goats and merino sheep are fine too. i live in middle tn. at the ky state line. i will be at work tomarrow if anyone has any help my number is 919-623-4442 if i dont ansewer just leave a message i will be showing dogs at a show and that means im in the ring but will call as soon as im done thanks to all of you.
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allamericanalpacas

4245 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2008 :  12:24:40 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Drunk sounds more like PEM than m-worm.
B complex is too low in thiamine to be an effective treatment.
Best case, find a vet to help immediately.
If not available, I'd personally begin thiamine and the buckeye blast

Rick
--
Rick & Pati Horn
All American Alpacas
35215 Avenida Mañana
Murrieta, Ca. 92563
951-217-0306
alpacanation.com/aaalpacas.asp
http://aaalpacas.com/updates.html
Life is Good!
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Hagen Heights Alpacas

995 Posts

Posted - 10/18/2008 :  12:53:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hagen Heights Alpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Rick,
What is the buckeye blast?


quote:
Originally posted by allamericanalpacas

Drunk sounds more like PEM than m-worm.
B complex is too low in thiamine to be an effective treatment.
Best case, find a vet to help immediately.
If not available, I'd personally begin thiamine and the buckeye blast

Rick
--
Rick & Pati Horn
All American Alpacas
35215 Avenida Mañana
Murrieta, Ca. 92563
951-217-0306
alpacanation.com/aaalpacas.asp
http://aaalpacas.com/updates.html
Life is Good!



Todd Gruenhagen and Theresa Reyes-Stassel
Hagen Heights Alpaca Farm
New Windsor, NY
845-800-2616
www.alpacanation.com/hagenheights.asp

http://www.alpacasocial.com/profile/TheresaReyesStassel

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Paradise

922 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  9:27:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Paradise's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Frank; how is your boy?

Laura Hillman
Paradise Alpacas
Hempstead, TX
979-826-9559
www.alpacanation.com/paradisealpacasoftx.asp
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nyala

3318 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  10:08:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit nyala's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Todd and Theresa,

The buckeye blast is the treatment protocol developed at Ohio State for m-worm. I've seen several versions but here is a link to one I found:

http://www.icinfo.org/pages/menintreat.html


Frank I hope you guy is doing okay

Ann

D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp
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vintagealpacas

701 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  10:31:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit vintagealpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My female that had grass tetney also had a drunk gate, she also had some neurological issues before having seizures.. she would lift her front legs as high as her shoulders, straight forward, off the ground, walking like a soldier. She also was temporarily blinded by the tetney until Ohio State got her on some oat supplement. She is fine today, delivered a nice healthy cria a month ago, and I am watching her closely as this happened to her last spring when her cria was sucking heavily off her. I guess the culprit was the rich spring grass. I am doubtful of that, but I will go with the "experts" for now.

Kim Rassi
Vintage Alpacas

Kimberly Rassi
Vintage Alpacas
alpacanation.asp/vintage
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  11:50:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Grass tetany is indeed caused by eating too much rich forage or sometimes, forages during drought conditions. These contain high amounts of nitrates, which screw up the metabolism of the animal - here is a technical description:

"Rumen microbes normally convert nitrate (NO 3 ) to nitrite (NO 2 ). Nitrite is reduced to ammonia (NH 4 ) and used by the rumen microbes to make protein. The problem arises when the concentration of nitrate in the rumen is greater than the capacity of the microbes to convert nitrite to ammonia. When this occurs, the nitrite concentration in the blood rises. Nitrite ties up hemoglobin so that the oxygen carrying capacity of blood is reduced and the animal suffocates." (thanks to the Animal Science Department, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida)

An individual animal's susceptibility to grass staggers (another name for grass tetany) can vary, but since you know your girl is susceptible, introduce her to new forages slowly. Ease her onto lush pastures, etc.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
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vintagealpacas

701 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  8:03:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit vintagealpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for that explanation Jill! One wuestion ... you say she suffocates?? My girl did not suffocate and she had this issue for about a month. Any reason she is a survivor?

Kim

Kimberly Rassi
Vintage Alpacas
alpacanation.asp/vintage
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  8:18:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tetany - let's call it the more descriptive name of hypomagnesaemia - results when an animal's levels of magnesium in the blood drop below critical levels (the mechanism by which this happens is in the previous post). When the magnesium levels drop too low, blood oxygen levels also drop, which can lead to tremors or convulsions/seizures; cardiac arrythmias; blindness; and numerous other complications. The animal dies from the effects of a lack of oxygen, but it is not an instant process. "Suffocation" was probably a poor choice of words on the part of the folks who wrote the extension article.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.alpacanation.com/bagendsuri.asp
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frank

19 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2008 :  09:22:21 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
he is getting better but still not up to par the fluixine (sp.) seems to help he is no longer being sweet when he was really bad he just layed his head on my sholder and hummed not like him he is the spitter of the farm, anytime anyone new would come over he would spit on them if you spit back at him that would be the only time he did it but if you didnt he would spit anytime he seen that person. even though hes a butthead i still love him. i have to leave town wed. morning on buss. trip but the lady who lives next door will give him his shots.why is it that alpacas are so sensitive llamas seem to be pretty hardy, you would know that the one farm animals that i get so attached to are the hardest to raise(i have llamas,alpacas,goats,sheep,rabbits,dogs,cat,koi,and E-I-O)
anyway say a prayer for him or keep him in your thoughts thanks so much.
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MoonSuri

282 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2008 :  9:42:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit MoonSuri's Homepage  Send MoonSuri a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding the oat supplement, would you just add some steamed rolled oats to their grain? Say 1 part oats to 4 parts grain? Or is this a supplement you purchase that has other ingredients as well?

Ruth McNitt
Moonstruck Alpacas
Brandon, Iowa
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MoonSuri

282 Posts

Posted - 10/29/2008 :  9:51:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit MoonSuri's Homepage  Send MoonSuri a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
The reason I asked about the oats is that Frank's alpaca might benefit from the oats, especially if the weather there turned freezing cold as fast as it did here in Iowa. Just wondering if that might help, but I didn't see his location. I add some steamed rolled oats to my grain in the cold months.

Ruth McNitt
Moonstruck Alpacas
Brandon, Iowa
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vintagealpacas

701 Posts

Posted - 10/30/2008 :  8:01:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit vintagealpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The oat supplement I was given by Ohio State was a very fine powdery substance in about a 2-gallon bucket for $100.00. I asked my vet about it and he said that rolled/steamed oats would do the trick too but I have to give ALOT. I don't mind giving alot if the weather is cold out but then that's my personal take on it. I wish I could remember what the name of the oat powder was called... if need be, I can call Ohio State and have them look it up ... let meknow if it is necessary.

Kim Rassi

Kimberly Rassi
Vintage Alpacas
alpacanation.asp/vintage
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