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 2. Alpaca Healthcare & Nutrition
 Thiamine
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llamapelli

1401 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2009 :  9:49:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit llamapelli's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I know the importance of thiamine has been discussed in the past, I am going to bring it up, especially for those new to alpacas. This summer we have been having quite the problem with parasites. Some of the nursing girls are tending to the too thin side, and we now suspect that worm overload stress may have been the cause of a recent abortion. One thing I have been giving lots of is B complex shots. I discovered 2 things this season. Thiamine by itself requires a prescription, but you can buy B complex, but the thiamine concentration varies (12.5mg/cc in the one at TSC, 100mg/cc in the one at Southern States). I discovered this because my vet was out of town, and I couldn't get thiamine only. The dose for polioencephalomalacia is 3-5mg/kg, which is a lot of thiamine. The good news is that B complex is water soluble, so unlike A, D and E, any excess will be peed out. The other good news is that B12 increases appetite is other animals, so likely in alpacas.

Why do I bring this up? Well, my girl who aborted is doing well with lots of B complex and aggressive worming. And there is my other girl. She has been having a hard time keeping up with milk production. We have been bottle feeding the cria to help her along. Today I went out to give the morning bottle to the baby girl (Keirla). Afterwards I did my usual walk around to lay eyes on all the animals. Keirla's dam was laying on her side, and could not get up. I ran to the barn, and grabbed B complex along with Bo-Se, Red Cell (she was definitely anemic, looking at her gums and eyes), Banamine. I gave her everything, and ran into the house to tell my husband that we were going to have to take her to OSU. I got dressed (did I mention I was in my jammies this whole time?) and grabbed my phone to call ahead. Maybe 10 or 15 minutes passed before I went outside again. I'm standing on my porch, and here comes the dam, a little shaky, but walking on her own accord (and got up on her own). I contacted the vets, and we decided to watch her closely, and keep up with the thiamine treatment. She is eating, getting up and down, drinking water, and no longer shaky. We haven't stopped holding our breath yet, but will watch her closely, make her cria rely on us rather than her dam for milk, and contimue with Dr. Evans thiamine dosing (every 12 hours for the first day, then daily for 3-5 days). Of course, she is also getting worming and iron. I have no doubt, though, that the thiamine got her up.

Melanie McMurry MD
Anasazi Alpacas & Kokopelli Llamas
Gladesville, WV
304-864-5210
http://www.alpacanation.com/anasazialpacas.asp

highpeaksalpacas

1291 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2009 :  10:00:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit highpeaksalpacas's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Keep us posted on her progress!
What dose are you using and of which concentration????

Debbie
High Peaks Alpacas
Wilmington, NY

You only live once...live with alpacas!
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llamapelli

1401 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2009 :  10:15:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit llamapelli's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I had to use the low concentration on her this morning, so I had to give her 20 cc SQ! I guess I hydrated her at the same time. I found the more concentrated form this afternoon, so now she is getting a mere 3cc. That makes a bit over 4mg/kg this morning, and 5mg/kg this evening.

Melanie McMurry MD
Anasazi Alpacas & Kokopelli Llamas
Gladesville, WV
304-864-5210
http://www.alpacanation.com/anasazialpacas.asp
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TheAlpacaRosa

571 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2009 :  09:56:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit TheAlpacaRosa's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by llamapelli

I have no doubt, though, that the thiamine got her up.





I dont know if I would be that confident that THIAMINE got her up. She could have easily had abdominal cramps which banamine would relieve in short order. Anytime banamine is given, it can take away pain very quickly and can actually help diagnose the problem..... (ie, if you see an animal limping in the back end, one should consider meningal, but if banamine relieves the symptom in short order, you are probably not dealing with meningal.)
Anyways, just an observation. Good luck with your girl.



Don Marquette
The AlpacaRosa
Ohio
www.alpacanation.com/thealpacarosa
www.TheAlpacaRosa.com
http://alpacaguy.com
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llamapelli

1401 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2009 :  10:26:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit llamapelli's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlpacaRosa

quote:
Originally posted by llamapelli

I have no doubt, though, that the thiamine got her up.





I dont know if I would be that confident that THIAMINE got her up. She could have easily had abdominal cramps which banamine would relieve in short order. Anytime banamine is given, it can take away pain very quickly and can actually help diagnose the problem..... (ie, if you see an animal limping in the back end, one should consider meningal, but if banamine relieves the symptom in short order, you are probably not dealing with meningal.)
Anyways, just an observation. Good luck with your girl.



Don Marquette
The AlpacaRosa
Ohio
www.alpacanation.com/thealpacarosa
www.TheAlpacaRosa.com
http://alpacaguy.com



No doubt that the Banamine may have helped, but this girl had generalized weakness. Not M-worm type weakness (which, believe me, I know), but definitely full body weakness. Her head was sort of vibrating, which the vet had said was a symptom of PEM when he came out to see the girl who aborted.

It has been over 24 hours, and she is still doing well. I'm working today, but my husband is keeping a close eye on her, as well as continuing to cover bottle duty.

Melanie McMurry MD
Anasazi Alpacas & Kokopelli Llamas
Gladesville, WV
304-864-5210
http://www.alpacanation.com/anasazialpacas.asp
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chf1752

115 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2009 :  1:29:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
deleted

Edited by - chf1752 on 12/16/2010 10:38:22 PM
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Heidi Christensen

4211 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2009 :  1:46:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Heidi Christensen's Homepage  Reply with Quote
2 cc sub-q of B-complex every third day during treatment was the rec. from David Colby - I am assuming that is for adults - younger or smaller animals probably get less, but its water soluble so probably doesn't matter.

Heidi Christensen
WingNut Farm
Graham, Wa
(253) 846-2168
http://alpacanation.com/wingnutfarm.asp
http://wingnut-alpacas.com
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