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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
 Posted - 10/26/2009 : 10:24:57 AM
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Hi, I,m new here. My name is Thomas I have a small farm in Sweden.
3days ago we discovered that our cria Maud was lying by herself on the field. Approashing her we noticed a bad limp on left hindleg. The Vet said to wait2-3days to see if it got better. the next day she would not even get up. The Vet came, gave her antibiotics (etazelin) and somthing for the pain her temp was 39,3 Celsius. now 2 days later she still can't get up. When I help her up she has no strenght or balance to even stand by herself. We had to forsefeed her this entire time (Goatmilk). The Vet will not do anything else-he sais we did all we can.yesterday she had 8dl (4 cups) today 3cups so far-will give 2 cups more.
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 10:41:39 AM
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| Talked to my Vet again, He will give partoxin to give mom so that we hopefully can milk her. I also insisted on getting her some vitamins, will go pick them up now. |
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Judith
2682 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 11:30:32 AM
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Hi Thomas - Is her dam staying with her, or does she have herd companionship (I have a vision of her lying all alone in the pasture with no herd company). Is she in a sheltered or protected area to keep her from the elements? Did the vet x-ray her to see whether she has a broken or dislocated bone? If it's been several days since she was able to stand, she may be weakening from mild atrophy - you know how hard it is to stand up after a couple of days in bed with the flu! Just a few other things to consider...
Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Suris
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 1:00:22 PM
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Hi, She is in the stable-with her mom, the others ore just uotside though i'm afraid they might step on her otherwise. No x-rays have been taken-the Vet is sure nothing is broken and there is no inflamed joints. Despite that i'we tryed to get a different animalclinic to x-ray, without luck so far.
Do you think it would help her if I try to make her stand like more than once a day? |
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kipaca
665 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 1:34:54 PM
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Hi Thomas,
I am sorry to hear about your cria....Do you have a large Animal Clinic nearby?...or even a farm with cattle or horses...so you may find another vet who is willing to x-ray. There is no way your vet can be sure that there is no fracture or joint damage without x-rays....I am thinking she may have a damaged tendon or possibly a fractured femur. Having her stand up, even with some help, could further injure her if she does have a fracture....and she will not want to stand if she is in pain.
Hoping you can get her to a good animal hospital as soon as possible!
Laila
Laila V Roukounakis
Graceland Alpaca Farm
Lisbon Falls, Maine
207-353-2171
info@gracelandfarm.com
www.alpacanation.com/graceland.asp |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 2:03:35 PM
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Yes. Ther is a clinic that treats horses 1,5 hours from here. Can I separate her from mom for 4 hours? I would prefer a small animal clinic my vet says it's not needed. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.
Gave her vitamins ADE and B-vitamins and Selen.
Also gave mom something to help drop the milk. We still got no milk out of her. Maybe my cria has been out of food for a while? f so, would the goatmilk give her energy back? How mush a day? (my Vet says 4 cups a day. |
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Upperfarmnic
278 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 3:49:40 PM
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Definitely get an Xray and go to a small animal clinic if you have to. A 3-month-old cria is certainly smaller than many dogs.
You can't rule out a fracture without an Xray.
Nicole Carter
Upper Farm Alpacas
Pownal, ME
niccarr33@msn.com
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nyala
2251 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 3:54:12 PM
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Hi,
I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles with Maud. Did I understand it correctly that she is 3 months old? How much does she weigh? 4 cups a day would not keep her going if she was the typical size of a 3 month old. She needs 10% of her body weight to maintain her weight and more than that to grow and be healthy. Four cups would be 2 pints, a pint is a pound the world round as the old saying goes so she only got 2 pounds of milk. That might keep a new cria going but not an older heavier one. A 20 pound cria (9.1 kg) could maintain weight on 2 pounds of milk.
I'm not really sure of anything that would work on a mom of a 3 month old cria to drop milk but maybe you have stuff we don't have here in the US. I tried to figure out what partoxin was and I think it might be oxytocin which I thought only worked in the first 12 hours after birth.
How is her body score? Does she feel thin? Could this just be weakness from too few calories if her mom does not have milk. Do you think it could be neurological? You might try a little thiamine. It would not hurt her.
I would not separate her from her mom if I could take both of them.
Please keep us posted.
Ann
D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp |
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kipaca
665 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 4:03:48 PM
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You need to give her 10% of her bodyweight in milk , per day, for maintenance..and extra for growth...give her Whole Cow's milk from the store, pasteurized! Vitamin paste is a good idea...and you can separate her from her mom for 4 hours...but it would be better to take the mom along to the clinic....
For comparison: When I started bottle feeding my cria, she was 2 weeks old and weighed 24 Lbs. I would give her 6,(8 oz bottles) per day, then went up as high as 9 bottles (1 bottle, 8 oz = 1 cup),so 4 cups is nowhere near enough.....Now my girl is 2 months old and weighs 53 Lbs...about 25 Kg.
Wishing you all the best and hope you can get some answers for your little cria!! They are so precious and I know how hard it is to see them suffer.....
Please let us know how it goes,
Laila
Laila V Roukounakis
Graceland Alpaca Farm
Lisbon Falls, Maine
207-353-2171
info@gracelandfarm.com
www.alpacanation.com/graceland.asp |
Edited by - kipaca on 10/26/2009 4:14:36 PM |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 4:43:51 PM
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| Thanks for the advice. We will start giving more milk tomorrow. Just gave her another 7oz (0,2 liters) Only 1 liter today. (My Vet said 0,8 liters a day.) Her weighy is about 18kg (36 pounds) she is not skinny. Perhaps it's lack of food? Is there a milksubstitute available? not in Sweden. And Yes it's the same as oxytocin. Swedish veterinarians seem to think it works. |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 4:47:47 PM
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| If she is starved, would all the vitamins I gave tonight help? How soon? |
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kipaca
665 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 11:12:01 PM
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Oxytocin will not do anything for the mom at this time, it is only useful during the first few hours after birth. Your cria needs at least 2 liters of milk per day...more as she grows. Use regular whole milk, make sure it is warm enough and give her Probiotics, about 1cc every other day to prevent stomach upset..
The vitamins you gave should help, but they are no substitute for food......ADEB paste should be given every 2 weeks during the winter months...I know winters are long in Sweden...I grew up in Norway!!
Feed her smaller meals more often throughout the day, starting at 6 AM and making the last bottle at 11 PM...you may need to give a bottle in the middle of the night as well for a few days if she is starving....36 pounds is small for 3 months old...and please weigh her every day so you can keep close track of any gain she makes..
Hope you can get her x-rayed as soon as possible to find out what the problem is with her leg......
Keeping my fingers crossed all will be well,
Laila
Laila V Roukounakis
Graceland Alpaca Farm
Lisbon Falls, Maine
207-353-2171
info@gracelandfarm.com
www.alpacanation.com/graceland.asp |
Edited by - kipaca on 10/26/2009 11:15:05 PM |
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Pepperina
484 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 12:55:03 AM
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I know you said you gave Vitamin B - can you clarify what dose rate you gave and the strength of the product you used?
How often are you giving it?
I agree with others that you also need to give additional Thiamine (Vit B1) as the Vitamin B complex does not have enough. As a guide we give 5x 100mg tablets to an adult alpaca morning and night. We crush the tablets and give with some probiotic yoghurt. You can also get injectable product instead. You cant overdose on the B vitamins - the body eliminates what it doesnt need.
I would also be giving the cria some Vitamin D. You say you have given ADE but again what dose rate and concentration in your product - just to make sure you are giving enough. You should also give some phosphate with this as they work together (so either an injectable Vit B12+phosphate product or you can give DCP dicalciumphosphate powder 1 dessert spoon for an adult made into drench - do this once a day for two days - then repeat once the following week).
Keep up the milk and to give strength.
Another question - do you have paralysis ticks in Sweden? (in Australia we do)
AND do you get the meningeal worm in Sweden? (in Australia we dont)
Getting an x-ray is a good idea but you could discuss with your vet try splinting the leg in the meantime but be careful how you do it. I have heard of many successful cases where alpacas with broken legs being splinted and not having surgery with a successful outcome. It would depend on the type of break of course.
We use hard cardboard tube split lenthways but some people use plumbing plastic pipe. You have to wrap the leg generously with cotton wool - then apply the splint and bind (not too tight as to restrict blood flow) with vet tape over the top to secure.
I am unfamiliar with the antibiotic etazelin - what is the active ingredient? Couldn't find mention on google.
In Australia we use milk supplement that is used for puppies, kittens, goats, sheep and calves etc called Divetelac - is there anything available in Sweden that might be suitable?
Let us know how things progress.
Regards Barbara Mills Pepperina Alpacas
Pepperina Alpacas Forest Hill QLD Australia
Email pamas@bigpond.com |
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Pepperina
484 Posts |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 04:44:06 AM
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Sorry, reaaly busy yesterday. We find all tips very useful. Yesterday my wife gave her 1,75liters of milk. We have srarted changing to cowsmilk by mixing half goatmilk and regular cowmilk 3% fat. We also add a little light syrup. She also ate a little hay.
The Cria seems a little better today, more alert and attempts to get up. Will continue the same today. The vitamins I gave her: Ultraplex wish is ADE, Breviplex B, and Selevitan for Selen. Is it correct to change to cowsmilk? Is 2,5dl about right for each feedingtime?
Will aim for 2 liters today. And No we dont have the mentioned diseases in northern Sweden. |
Edited by - Tompaswede on 10/28/2009 04:47:07 AM |
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nyala
2251 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 07:03:08 AM
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Hi,
We have used whole cow's milk which is about 3.7 % fat with a little yoghurt in it. I think a gradual transition from goat to cow's milk is a good idea. I don't know what light syrup is but I'd be careful with it, as at least too much karo syrup here can give them diarrhea. I wasn't sure how much you are feeding her at a time. 2.5 liters would be enough for the whole day (if I did my math right) and is about 15% of her body weight. The next question would be how often you are feeding her, you don't want to overload her at one feeding. She should get around 10.8 cups a day (can someone check my math that that is correct for a 36 pound cria getting 15%.) I've only bottle fed a new cria and they fed about every two hours but at her age she should be able to go a bit long. The 10.8 cups is assuming she is getting nothing from her mom or very very little.
Be careful on vitamins too some are easy to overdose on.
How is her leg doing?
Ann
D. Andrew Merriwether, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology and Biology, Binghamton University
and
Ann and Andy Merriwether
Nyala Farm Alpacas,Vestal, NY
www.alpacanation.com/nyalafarm.asp |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 03:53:34 AM
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| OK, removed the syrup. Her diareha might stop now. We gave 0,25 liters at a time, yestrerday 2 liters. Will aim at 2,5 liters today. Condition unchanged from yesterday. Now we give 3 dl (0,3 liters) at a time. Also we're trying to teach her to eat some pellets (candellibra) |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 06:18:13 AM
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| Got her to eat some Camelibra. How much should we try to feed her? Should we reduce the milk? I have Camelibra and Fibregest, using 50-50. |
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kipaca
665 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 06:25:32 AM
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How is her leg doing, have you been able to get it x-rayed....is she able to stand? The longer she remains laying down the more the leg will atrophy. I am happy to see you are getting more food into her.....you can give her some meds for the diarrhea, not sure what you have available in Sweden, but I have used Maalox....probably removing the syrup should help a lot.
Anther trick you may want to try is to soak some pellet food in milk, (put it in the blender) make a thin soup out of it and feed her that with a syringe---or bottle (but you'll nee a nipple with a much larger hole in it.
Best of Luck,
laila
Laila V Roukounakis
Graceland Alpaca Farm
Lisbon Falls, Maine
207-353-2171
info@gracelandfarm.com
www.alpacanation.com/graceland.asp |
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samsuri
57 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 07:29:25 AM
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Hi Thomas
At 3 months old, a cria is capable of surviving without milk, as long as it eats enough grass, hay and grain (pellets). Obviously if it can't walk, then giving a bottle is an easy way to get milk into her, but if she is happily eating the other food, then you should be increasing the other food and decreasing the milk.
How is her leg? Can she stand and walk now?
Does she still have diarrhoea? This can be caused by any change in diet, not just the syrup, but should go away after a day or two... so if it has persisted, then you may need to consider antibiotics or other medication.
I know of many breeders in Australia who feed their crias 100% cows milk from their first day. They buy the powdered milk from the supermarket and the crias do very well on this. Personally I think adding some yoghurt is a good idea.
Let us know how Maud is doing.
Cheers
Robyn
Robyn Harrison
Samsuri Alpacas
Coloured Suri Alpacas
Gympie, Queensland, Australia |
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Tompaswede
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 2:09:35 PM
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Maud has not walked since Saturday, when she limped around for 20 minutes. We stopped trying to get her up a few days ago. Planing to make a new attempt to convince the vet to x-ray tomorrow. I like the ide adding camelibra (and fibregest?) to her milk. How much? And redusing milk? Thanks so so much for all the help. If she makes it it's thanks to all you guys..
Also, would it be ok to close the stabledoor, they would loo´se eyecontact with the other girls? just over night.
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3 month cria very sick Help needed
