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Margaret
12 Posts |
 Posted - 10/09/2009 : 09:59:46 AM
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I have read many threads regarding barn floors and have a few more questions. We are having a new floor put in next week - we will have several inches of the current dirt floor removed and the floor will be leveled. After that, we will put in 4 inches of crushed limestone. My questions are - can you use stall skins over crushed limestone? Also, a couple of years ago, we were at the AOBA alpaca show in Indianapolis and a vendor was selling flooring made from recycled rubber. It was nice and thick and water permeable. Has anyone heard of this? And does anyone have a contact for it? I would greatly appreciate your help in this matter as we are still very new to the wonderful world of alpacas.
Thanks!
Margaret
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Mary Jane
924 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 2:44:55 PM
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We installed our Stall Skins over finely crushed limestone after consulting with the selling company. They have been in place about a month and I love them.
Mary Jane
Land of Legends Alpacas
2653 Swans Road
Newark, OH 43055
(740)345-2199
www.alpacanation.com/landoflegends.asp |
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nancyspacas
355 Posts |
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vintagealpacas
389 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 7:17:34 PM
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Hi Margret,
The crushed rubber material was beautiful and worked alot like stall skins but it was 5 times the cost of the stall skins... so I decided against it. If you can afford the best, then that is the material I would go with .. stall skins would be second.
MaryJane....does it drain well over the limestaone? I was thinking of putting down some stal skins over small pebbles. I have my original stall skins over a sand base. Drainage is good but I think it could be better.
Kim Rassi
Kimberly Rassi
Vintage Alpacas
alpacanation.asp/vintage |
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Margaret
12 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 09:35:33 AM
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Thanks for the information. I sent an email out about the foam mats, I think that is what we saw at the alpaca show.
Margaret |
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janechristie
1475 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2009 : 10:00:55 PM
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We use solid rubber cow mats in our barn, as they are so easy to keep clean.
Once alpaca urine soaks into a permeable surface, like gravel or earth, it is really tough to get rid of that smell to stop them doing it again in the same area.
With the stall mats, if they have a "barn accident", we can just clean them off and spray with disinfectant. If that doesn't do the trick, we fence the 'pacas out of the area temporarily, until they get out of the habit.
Keeps the poop piles outside the barn, where we like them best!
Jane.
www.thistledownalpacas.com
Ph: (804)-784-4837 Fax: (804)-784-4839 |
Edited by - janechristie on 10/12/2009 10:53:33 PM |
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Mary Jane
924 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2009 : 08:55:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vintagealpacas
Hi Margret,
The crushed rubber material was beautiful and worked alot like stall skins but it was 5 times the cost of the stall skins... so I decided against it. If you can afford the best, then that is the material I would go with .. stall skins would be second.
MaryJane....does it drain well over the limestaone? I was thinking of putting down some stal skins over small pebbles. I have my original stall skins over a sand base. Drainage is good but I think it could be better.
Kim Rassi
Kimberly Rassi
Vintage Alpacas
alpacanation.asp/vintage
It drains well. Our clay soil doesn't drain, so we had to resort to doing something else when the number of animals on the female side of the barn exceeded the sand's capability of handling the amount of urine. What we actually did is laid down a pond liner on top of our sand, sloping it toward a center drain, then put the limestone over top of it. We compacted the limestone with a rented compacter, then put the stall skins on top of that. I don't think you want to use something like pea gravel because it won't compact and will shift under the skins. We can spray the skins down to clean them during the summer. We also pour a bucket of water through the skins over the drain to keep it flushed once every few days. The manufacturer says you can use Lysol to keep the odor down, if need be.
Mary Jane
Land of Legends Alpacas
2653 Swans Road
Newark, OH 43055
(740)345-2199
www.alpacanation.com/landoflegends.asp |
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hoodwinked
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 9:59:30 PM
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We have had our STaLL SKiNS in place for 6 months now. We were so happy with them that we became distributors. We hose our stall skins off about once a month to inspect them for wear and for sanitation reasons, and they still look like new. No signs of abrasive wear caused by our alpacas. I would not be with out them. Listed below are some FAQs that we have encountered
* How strong are they? STaLL SKiNS are horse tough; they were created for horses and have been in place in horse barns for over 13 years. Horses are much more aggressive in the stall than alpacas. I know of alpaca farms that have had them in place for over 6 years, and they love them.
* How well do they clean after poop is ground into them? It is easier to let the ground in poop dry and simply kick it off, or I use a metal ice scrapper and scrape it off .
* What needs to be done prior to installing STaLL SKiNS? Depending on your soil and draining conditions. We have sandy soil and literally did nothing but laid the STaLL SKiNS down. Later I pulled one up to make a leach pit so I would know a little better what I am talking about with my customers. If you have poor draining soil you will want a leach pit. Simply dig about 1 to 5 holes 2 feet deep, fill with large gravel up to 2 inches the top and finish with sand. I also sloped around the area my alpacas liked to use, toward the leach pits. Some customers have put landscape cloth over the gravel in the leach pit to keep the sand from sifting down into the gravel, and others having very poor draining soil have laid down plastic sheeting to facilitate draining into the leach pit.
* How long does it last? We have heard of skins that have been in service for the last 13 years.
* Is it hot? Actually when installed in the barn alpacas like to lay on it avoiding the soiled areas. It has a crusty side that is allows the coolness of the earth to come through. On the other had with the Iowa winters we will put straw down on it to help keep the alpacas warmer, but no straw in the area they poop.
* How do I clean it? About once a month, I will hose it down (not during winter months) and use my yard broom to scrub it. I have used a little dawn dish soap once and it made my barn smell lemony, or to disinfect it you can use a Pine sol and water solution and pour through the STaLL SKiNS then pour more water over that, so not to take a chance in harming the alpacas.
* Can I use metal rakes on it? Yes. I use a plastic shovel & yard broom 95 % of the time. I will break out the ice scrapper about once a week to get up the ground in poop.
* Does it hold odors? My barn rarely has an order. Actually my cat makes it smell more then my alpacas.
* Is bedding needed? The manufacturer recommends the use of bedding. We have found that many horse people will use bedding but far less than the recommended amount. We do not use bedding during the summer but will use bedding during the winter months to keep the alpacas warmer.
We hope this is helpful for you. And should you have any further questions, please don’t hesitate to call or email us here at SunRise Suris.
Terry & Sue
Terry & Sue Hart
SunRise Suris
Vinton, IA
319 784-7847
319 310-7705
SunRise_Suris@commspeed.net
www.AlpacaNation.com/SunRiseSuris.asp |
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Shadyside Mike
34 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 8:59:01 PM
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We use thick 4x6 rubber mats that were made for horse barns. They were quite expensive and are heavier than heck! However, aside from some sort of pitched concrete set up I do not know that I'd like any other set up. I will have to decide on the flooring as we plan for our new barn though so I will be paying much attention to threads like this. The mats give a nice sturdy flooring and are easy to clean up when needed.
If anyone has any cons to a concrete floor I would appreciate your input. Does brushed finish cause any issues with alpacas feet? I know the smoother finish seems to be a bit slick and I don't like that idea at all.
Mike of Shadyside Alpaca Farm
Auburn, Indiana
mike@shadysidealpacas.com
http://www.shadysidealpacas.com
http://shadysidealpacafarm.blogspot.com |
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Russcyn
19 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 12:03:19 AM
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The only problem I can think of with concrete, is that it is very porous. If you are wanting to avoid having that wonderful alpaca smell (I'm not being facetious - I love the smell of my alpacas)then concrete might make it more difficult. It will be near impossible to get the toilet smell out of the concrete and they will keep going back to top it up.
There are products out there to neutralise the smell to a certain degree, but the rubber might be easier to clean and disinfect.
Russcyn Alpaca Stud - Warmth Without Cruelty
York, Western Australia |
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vintagealpacas
389 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 08:31:05 AM
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Since my farm/barn was a "retro-fit" from a warehouse, all the flooring is concrete... believe it or not I would much prefer the very slick extra smooth concrete to the rough top concrete. The animals get used to the concrete style and adjust ... but the clean up onthe rough concrete is absolutely impossible as the poop sticks to the surface and becomes imbedded and almost impossible to even brush away! If there was one thing I would love to change about my farm it would be to do away with the concrete and use stall-skins instead - but that does not make economical sense until we start making 30K per alpaca again and the kids are out of college!
Kim
Kimberly Rassi
Vintage Alpacas
alpacanation.asp/vintage |
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bobvicki
1874 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 10:11:15 AM
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I use concrete floors and think they are great. I have never seen stall skins so I don't know about them. When the concrete was put in I was asked how I wanted the surface done and I chose a light brushed finish, not real rough but just enough for traction.
We use plastic snow shovels all year round for cleaning them and 2 or 3 times a year we will power spray them with water. We don't have a problem with them retaining a smell. They will stain and if that bothers you a cleaning once or twice a year with a strong cleaner or muric acid will remove that but you must be very careful.
Like Kim my experience is that the animals get used to it. One really nice benefit is I rarely have to clip toenails on the females who have the concrete floor but the male barn is dirt floor and they need toe nails done frequently.
Bob
Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
3288 Halter Avenue
Newton, Iowa 50208
641-831-3576
alpaca@iowatelecom.net
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp |
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Judith
2682 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 12:42:48 PM
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Concrete is great as long as you have drainage. I made that mistake when I built my current barn, and had asked the contractors to just slope the floor so that moisture would run toward the doors where I had them put in French drains. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way, and my concrete floors are always wet unless they're deep-bedded.
Also unfortunately, I lost my female guard llama a couple of years ago when she slipped on the wet concrete (rushing in for grain, no doubt), went spraddle-legged on the floor, dislocated her hips, completely tore the ligaments and was never able to rise again. I ultimately had to have her euthanized, leaving behind an orphaned 2 month old cria. Not a pretty sight, folks! Watch wet concrete. It really can be dangerous, even when they know it's there and you think they've learned to slow down.
Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Suris
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp |
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hoodwinked
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2009 : 10:29:05 PM
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Hey Bob, if your ever in our neck of the woods stop by. We have stall skins down. Wouldn't be with out them.
I'm thinking of putting them in my son's room when we remodel the house. That way I can just shovel the trash out (putting it lightly) and hose it down once a month.
Sue
Terry & Sue Hart
SunRise Suris
Vinton, IA
319 784-7847
319 310-7705
SunRise_Suris@commspeed.net
www.AlpacaNation.com/SunRiseSuris.asp |
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MoonSuri
244 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 12:32:02 AM
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Judith, so sorry to hear about your llama.
I have concrete floors and they are no problem except in the winter when they can be slippery. Mine slope slightly toward the middle, which helps keep them dry, and have a rough texture. I don't do the kind of deep straw bedding where you leave the wet straw and continue covering it with more dry straw through the winter. I do end up having to take quite a bit out because the pee runs underneath the dry straw. Makes for a poopie pile with too much straw in it. But I just don't feel comfortable leaving all that soiled straw for them to end up sleeping on top of, with their heads/noses on the ground. But I know it would be easier to leave it, that's for sure.
After cleaning the pens, I sprinkle the damp areas with anti-slip barn lime, purchased from a local farm store. Only one in my area carries it, so you have to look around.
Ruth at Moonstruck
Brandon, Iowa |
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bobvicki
1874 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2009 : 01:01:07 AM
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I do not use any bedding on my cement floors! I put those anti-fatigue mats down during the winter. These are the rubber mats that connect like Jig-Saw puzzles on the sides. They are light weight, easy to clean, easy to cut to shape if you need to go around a post or other fixture. They cost about $20 for a package with 8 pieces that are 2ft X 2ft so about 16 square feet. Since I put shop type heaters in my barns I don't feel the need for deep bedding. I also believe that this saves me a lot of hard work, no spreading & no clean up of straw or hay and no need to store those bales. I probably don't save any money because what I don't spend on bedding I probably spend on electricity.
By strategically placing portable panels inside the barn to create spaces it makes it difficult for an alpaca to get to full gallop where a serious fall could injure them.
Bob
Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
3288 Halter Avenue
Newton, Iowa 50208
641-831-3576
alpaca@iowatelecom.net
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp |
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MoonSuri
244 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2009 : 8:38:21 PM
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Bob, I took your advice about the foam mats on the floor and they are working great. I still put some straw over them, so they would get used to the surface being spongy and not try to pull them up and play with them like last year. They are all getting used to it. I like the insulation they are getting. Temps climbed up again last week, but when it does go below zero, they will all benefit from this.
Thanks for the good idea,
Ruth at Moonstruck
Brandon, Iowa |
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joeykatp
23 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 07:55:53 AM
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We have a new barn with pea stone over a gravel bed. We're trying out a few of the 21 ft x 7 1/2 ft garage mats that you get at Sam's Club. Our thing is not to let any urine get through the mats to the stone because it would be nearly impossible to get the smell out. We use the compressed wood horse pellets and Stall Dry to clean up accidents and then disinfect and further deodorize by cleaning the mat with a bleach solution. So far they've been pretty good about using the outside potties. We'll see what happens in the winter!
Kathy Paternoster
Our Father's Farm
New Hampton, NY
(845)374-7712 |
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Barn Floors
