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farmgal
204 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2009 : 3:13:07 PM
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We need your help with a sick little girl. She is 2 months old and was born with contracted tendons which required braces. Once getting over this hurdle, she acted like any healthy little cria should.
Three weeks ago we changed hay suppliers and (not sure if this is coincidence) but she became "wobbly" and began acting less energetic, cushing a lot and not pronking. We thought maybe constipation so, thanks to Rick's help  , gave her an enema. This did not seem to help so we took her to the vet.
Our vet thought coccidiosis, so place her on a 7-day treatment of albon, although there has never been any diarrhea and really no weakness, just staggering. The treatment has not helped, she is still "wobbly."
Her symptoms have stayed persistently the same, sometimes seeming to get better, but then she reverts back to being "wobbly."
Her primary symptoms are as follows:
1. Shakes her head a lot.
2. Cranes her neck a lot (looking straight up).
3. Back end seems wobbly.
This looks neurological to me (though I have NO medical experience). My thoughts are M-worm, Rye Grass Staggers, some type of toxin, some type of deficiency, ear/equilibrium problems. Any ideas??? I plan to take her back to the vet, but would like to know what type of blood panels/toxin screens to ask her to run.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
God bless you from PHD Alpacas!
Ricky and Kim Pressley
PHD Alpacas
Hendersonville, NC
kimberly@phdalpacas.com
(828)808-0048
www.phdalpacas.com
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llamapelli
1186 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 3:54:27 PM
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Has she received thiamine or selenium? Sometimes PEM (polio) can be caused by stressors like feed changes, and the treatment is thiamine (3-5 mg/kg every 12 hours for two doses then daily for 5 days).
Melanie McMurry MD
Anasazi Alpacas & Kokopelli Llamas
Gladesville, WV
304-864-5210
http://www.alpacanation.com/anasazialpacas.asp |
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t-point
51 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 5:46:58 PM
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Kim,
Melanie, is exactly right on with what I would try next we had our 30 day old cria start to get wobbly in the back legs we thought M-worm to but with the thiamine treatment she was back to normal. We saw results within 24 hours.
Hope everything turns out ok
Diane Troutman
A Turning Point Alpaca
Reynoldsville PA
www.alpacanation.com/turningpoint.asp
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alpacastarr
560 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 6:57:55 PM
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I wonder if she could have ear ticks? or some other ear related problem.
If it's been going on for 3 weeks, I would think some of the more deadly type of things like Rabies or WNV or EEE or M-worm would have already become more apparent.
I'd get a mineral panel to look for anything out of norm. Selenium or copper deficiency can cause neuro symptoms.
Could be an injury that you didn't see happen. Does she get up and down OK?
Aside from wobbling in the back end, does she walk normally or is she high stepping.
When she cranes her neck to look up, does she seem able to see?
Starr
Venezia Dream Farm
Asheville, NC
http://alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=11404
http://www.veneziadream.com/
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farmgal
204 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 10:50:51 PM
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Thanks to all of you for your input - we took her to the vet tonight for her first thiamine treatment. I will keep you all posted
Starr - all good questions - vet checked for injuries and checked her eyes as well - eyesight is fine and no injuries to back legs.
Thanks again!!
Kim
God bless you from PHD Alpacas!
Ricky and Kim Pressley
PHD Alpacas
Hendersonville, NC
kimberly@phdalpacas.com
(828)808-0048
www.phdalpacas.com |
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alpacasofeldorado
42 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 10:54:22 PM
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Here are a couple of things to look into. Could be a tick in her ear. My alpacas will shake their heads, stagger, cush and not eat, and if not treated facial paralysis. Have your vet look into her ears if they haven't already. If she has ticks, ivermectin directly into the ear will kill any ticks.
Could be Polio due to stress, maybe the braces? If she responds to Vitamin B then a vet recommended dosage of Thiamine should help her.
Have your vet run a vitamin D panel as it could also be Rickets. Alpacas will cush, not want to get up, wobble, appear disoriented, and seem sore. Lots to think about I know, but I hope this helps.
Laurie Findlay
Alpacas of El Dorado
530-642-8082 |
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Upperfarmnic
278 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 10:42:42 AM
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Has she been getting Vitamin ADE? We have a young female that over last winter would occasionally start to knuckle. Not stagger or trip, just drag her feet. Give her a paste ration and it would go away. She was our reminder to stay on top of it.
Nicole Carter
Upper Farm Alpacas
Pownal, ME
niccarr33@msn.com
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Pepperina
484 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 4:57:23 PM
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We give the pure Vitamin D orally using 1000IU tablets they use for humans. For adult we give 5x capsules (cut end off and squeeze oil into syringe barrel and pop in corner of mouth). Repeat this on second day and then a week later. Also must give calcium and phosphate. We give using DCP dicalcium phosphate 1 dessert spoon in drench. Alternatively look for Vit B12+phosphorous injection. These work synergistically with the Vit D. Try and keep stress down and treat quietly and carefully with minimum of fuss if possible.
I also agree with others about the thiamine treatment - cant hurt as the body eliminates it if it doesnt need it. We give orally too using 5x 100mg tablets for humans morning and night. We continue this for a week and then wean off slowly. You should discuss with your vet about an antiinflammatory as PEM causes brain swelling.
Hope things improve for you. Regards Barbara
Pepperina Alpacas Forest Hill QLD Australia
Email pamas@bigpond.com |
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Pepperina
484 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2009 : 8:47:10 PM
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Update on this cria please?
Regards Barbara - Pepperina Alpacas Forest Hill QLD Australia
Pepperina Alpacas Forest Hill QLD Australia
Email pamas@bigpond.com |
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farmgal
204 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2009 : 10:32:50 AM
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Well - after a bolus of thiamine and 2 treatments - no change. She seems to be worse in the mornings (more wobbly), gets better throughout the day, and then wobbly again at late evening. We have polkberry growing outside the fence of our pastures and have considered poisoning. Thus we contacted the vet and at her instructions have pulled her out of the pasture and gave her mineral oil orally. We are now supplementing her feedings (thinking this will help any nutritional deficits) and making sure she has plenty of hay (without having to compete with the other alpacas).
If this has not helped within several days our next step will probably be to contact UT to see if they have suggestions.
Thanks again!!!
Kim
God bless you from PHD Alpacas!
Ricky and Kim Pressley
PHD Alpacas
Hendersonville, NC
kimberly@phdalpacas.com
(828)808-0048
www.phdalpacas.com |
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richbye
746 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 2:38:19 PM
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We have an adult female that gets wobbly every fall. I call it bobble-head. Her head and neck wobble (like a bobble head doll). We give her 5cc of vitamin B complex for 2 weeks (twice a week) and then she's good to go. Most B vitamins are made by bacteria in the gut, but for some reason she doesn't produce enough in the fall. I have no idea why that time of year either.
For plants, your sypmtoms could be ryegrass staggers or from Death Camas (which does cause wobbly legs).
Many mineral deficiencies can cause muscle weakness (could be all over or location specific) such as calcium, phosphorus, and potassium. Note that most labs require a different test done for vitamin D (cannot be done with a general CBC/chem panel). My vet said that is a special test and is more costly.
I hope this helps!
Jeanne
Gemstone Alpacas, Inc.
11300 Savage Rd.
Chaffee, NY 14030
(716) 868-0883
http://www.alpacanation.com/gemstonealpacas.asp
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farmgal
204 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 8:19:15 PM
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Thanks for all the input!! We spoke with a vet at UT today and will be taking her for x-rays tomorrow. We have fought with this issue long enough and we are really ready to just find out what is going on. The vet at UT is inclined to believe rickets, but says the x-rays will confirm/deny this diagnosis. If it is rickets the x-rays will also help formulate a treatment plan.
I will definitely keep you all posted!
Thanks again,
Kim
God bless you from PHD Alpacas!
Ricky and Kim Pressley
PHD Alpacas
Hendersonville, NC
kimberly@phdalpacas.com
(828)808-0048
www.phdalpacas.com |
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samsuri
57 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 10:54:28 PM
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Hi Kim and Ricky
Ricketts is more common that we all realise. You can check the phos level in the blood rather than test for VitD.
Elizabeth Paul in Australia has done a lot of research on ricketts in alpacas, and has written some really good papers. Here is an extract from another alpaca forum on the subject:
PHOSPHATE & VIT D
If you are intending to have blood samples taken to check on serum phosphate levels, it is imperative that those samples are rushed to the testing lab within 45 minutes of collection and
TESTED immediately for serum phosphate - not left around in the courier van or the lab frig overnight, because they will be rendered useless for this test.
Or if that cannot be achieved, then two samples need to be taken, and one needs to be spun down to collect the serum fraction on farm, which can then be sent for serum phosphate testing. Bench
centrifuges for worm testing can be used, or ask the vet to bring their own.
Or at a pinch, mock up something to use in the spin cycle of the washing machine.
The reason is that red blood cells lyse, or break down, once out of the body, in a tube.
They spill their cell contents also containing phosphate (and potassium) into the serum, thus giving a false high result.
Horse blood is pretty robust stuff, but alpaca red blood cells are more fragile than other species.
Red blood cells from alpacas with rickets, are even more fragile, and will rapidly lyse in tube, thus the 45 minute window.
A serum phosphate result, correctly processed, giving a value of less than 1 mmol/L of PO4, and regardless of the lower reference level, means that your alpaca already has severe rickets, no matter
what else may be wrong with it - eg worms, coccidia, fatty liver. And it most likely had rickets, before it had the others.
Less than 0.5 mmol/L is critically low.
It is also important to remember, that even if a serum phosphate level has been done correctly and appears adequate for the age/lifestage, that the alpaca can still be vitamin D deficient, because phosphate levels rise in the animal, several weeks before the natural vitamin D level does, in spring.
Every alpaca owner should have both vitamin D - and I mean either Hideject or Adject in NZ, AND at least an injectable form of phosphate with vitamin B12 - on hand. Or DCP powder and vit B12
injections - it really doesn't matter which forms are used.
When I am treating an alpaca for rickets, I give both oral and injectable vitamin D plus phosphate on Day 1, then oral vitamin D and phosphate on Day 2 and Day 3.(plus other vitamins and minerals)
Giving phosphate alone, will raise the serum phosphate level, and will probably save its life, temporarily, but it needs the vitamin D to maintain that level. Oral vitamin D works faster, but
injectable vitamin D works longer, so I use both.
Giving vitamin D alone may be ok if the phosphate is not too low, but it's much better to give both at the same time. Vitamin D and phosphate are two halves of one whole.
The big killer in severe rickets is the severe anaemia. If the packed cell volume - PCV - is less than 10 (here in Aus) then the alpaca does not have enough red blood cells to carry enough oxygen around its body, and it will most likely die, unless it gets a blood transfusion.
It may still die, if it can't regenerate its own blood cells quickly enough.
Treating rickets may require a multifactorial approach – raising the phosphate and vitamin D levels, dealing with the anaemia and addressing other issues such as worms.
Finally - an alpaca with rickets is already highly stressed – if you have an alpaca down in the paddock with what you suspect is rickets, then you should treat it on the spot, with phosphate at
least, but preferably vit D as well, then giving it some time to absorb the phosphate, before attempting to move it. Otherwise it will very likely die from the added stress of moving.
Having just come back from Tasmania, and seen rickets in 5 herds, mostly blacks but a few other colours as well, I strongly suggest that you all check your females for anaemia levels, and your crias
for crooked legs.
ElizPaul.
Erehwon Alpacas
I hope this is helpful.
Cheers
Robyn
Robyn Harrison
Samsuri Alpacas
Coloured Suri Alpacas
Gympie, Queensland, Australia |
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farmgal
204 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 5:12:50 PM
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Sorry I have not updated sooner, I have had to take a couple of days to come to terms with this.
It is with sadness that I have to report that we had to have our lovely little girl put down.
We traveled to UT, and I must report that the people at UT were truly wonderful!!! Their professionalism and knowledge coupled with their kindness and compassion made this, our fist lost cria, bearable.
As reported, we went up there thinking ricketts, however upon examination the vet reported he did not "feel" any abnormalities, however he said with x-rays he could tell for sure. After x-raying the back legs/hips, he came in and told us "no ricketts." He did ask if he could go ahead and x-ray the spine to check for problems, so my husband and I agreed. This is when he found a traumatic injury to the spine, pinching the spinal cord. He consulted their neurologist and he said because of the location he would not even attempt to do surgery on this, thus, the prognosis of progressive pain, paralysis and eventual death. My husband and I felt that the only responsible decision would be to relieve her suffering and have her put down.
Needless to say it was a very long drive back home.
We have learned from this, with our small herd and an older female that tends to view the pasture as hers, that we should keep babies separated in a "nursery" pasture until they get big enough to hold their own.
Thanks to everyone for your help and support, and thanks to all those at UT for helping us get through this.
Kim and Rick
God bless you from PHD Alpacas!
Ricky and Kim Pressley
PHD Alpacas
Hendersonville, NC
kimberly@phdalpacas.com
(828)808-0048
www.phdalpacas.com |
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Pepperina
484 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2009 : 12:01:31 AM
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Sorry to hear it was not good outcome. I have had experience with something similar (except neck). Wish we had got xrays like you did sooner because we went through a month or more of hard work and worry. Still wasnt easy to euthanize but you did the right thing. Sometimes I wonder if some of these types of injuries haapen at birth.
Regards Barbara
Pepperina Alpacas Forest Hill QLD Australia
Email pamas@bigpond.com |
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Lee
93 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2009 : 06:30:37 AM
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Kim,
So very sorry for the loss of your little girl. It is never easy to loose a loved animal. You and your husband absolutely did the right thing.
Lee Ann Hammer
Magnolia Hill Alpacas
West Point, VA.
757 870 0037
larryhamm@gmail.com |
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ard
1191 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 01:03:02 AM
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Hi Kim,
We were so sorry to read of your loss. We have been out of town for 10 days, so this is a little late. I know that other people think that alpaca people are too sensetive, but I think we would rather be this way than uncaring. That is why we chose to nurture these wonderful creatures. You made the right choice. We know how hard that is. May you have peace with your decision.
Sincerely,
Robin Alpert
Alpacas 'R Diamonds
15163 W 323rd
Paola, KS 66071
913-849-3738
www.alpacanation.com/alpacasrdiamonds.asp
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farmgal
204 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2009 : 4:39:26 PM
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Thanks to all for your kind words of encouragement here and via private e-mail! It is times like these that makes alpaca ownership stand out as "wonderful lifestyle," with such very supportive group of peers
God bless you from PHD Alpacas!
Ricky and Kim Pressley
PHD Alpacas
Hendersonville, NC
kimberly@phdalpacas.com
(828)808-0048
www.phdalpacas.com |
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Sick cria
