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 2. Alpaca Healthcare & Nutrition
 tapeworms
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Kaye

154 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2007 :  5:22:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi everyone, we just finished treating for strongylus and coccidia (our first positive fecal) and their fecal today showed negative results. However now we have white tapeworms in their stools. I did a search and read that tapeworms can present after treating for worms. Why? I've seen Equimaz recommended and Droncit. Anyone have a dose for the Droncit? Would it be the same as Equimax?
And off the subject but something I've been wondering, what is the dose for a probiotic? Thanks, Kaye
Kaye Sanderson
Diamond Rose Ranch
3950 N US Hwy 68
Wilmington, Ohio 45177
(937) 372-3625

xr6004

241 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2007 :  12:05:35 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kaye,

http://www.pfizerah.com/product_overview.asp?drug=EQ&country=US&lang=EN&species=EQ
EQUIMAX™ is an FDA-approved, all-in-one dewormer that combines ivermectin and praziquantel to safely and effectively rid horses of all major internal parasites, including tapeworms, in a single dose.

Droncit active ingredient is praziquantel.

I would not use the Equimax since most of the parasites are already probably resistant to the ivermectin since you are probably using it on a monthly schedule of M-worm.

What was the treatment for the strongylus and coccidia?

It is very hard to detect tapeworm oocysts in a fecal exam, because they deteriorate rapidly. Most often detected by observation of feces. Fenbendezole (Safeguard/Panacur) should work as well, but require a second dose at ten days (I think).

I'd vacate the room in a hurry too if someone introduced a toxic substance. You would also see the same effect for the strongyles if you ran a fecal within a short period after treatment. Never did it; always did fecal at two weeks to determine effectiveness.

Probiotic doses depends on the situation. 5cc/day for prevention such as before and during show or as an appetite stimulator. 5-10cc/2x day during illness but never during treatment for coccidia. B vitamins in probiotics counter act the effects of the coccidial drugs. Hard to over dose with probiotics.

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Pepperina

777 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2007 :  03:52:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit Pepperina's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I attended an alpaca conference last weekend and the vet suggested you could use dog tapeworm tablet containing Praziquantel as the active ingredient. Please check with your manufacturers recommendations and your own vet also when trying something new. But I thought it was interesting.

Regards
Barbara
Pepperina Alpacas Australia
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Kaye

154 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2007 :  07:14:19 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Equimax might work, we don't do preventive worming (even for M-worm)We had Dr Norm and our 2 local vets out to inspect our farm and since we have new fields and a small herd w/ rotation abilities, they felt we would do better to do monthly fecals and keep an active eye out in our field conditions. So it wasn't by symptom that we discovered the Stronglus & coccidia - it was just the monthly fecal. We treated the Stronglus w/ Dectomax and the coccicida w/ Albon. A couple of days into treatment we noticed the ballish-poop and I thought "oh, we're making it worse" but then realized that we were just experiencing the "worming path" I had fecals done so soon because I wanted to see if the count was better and we were on the right course. But when I went to "catch" the poop (one advantage of a small herd) I saw the tapeworms. Then I was told that that was pretty normal when you treat for other worms - and that was when I hit the internet and came running to my forum friends! We've only had our alpacas on our farm since May so I'm still very new to all the husbandry skills. I appreciate all your insights and experience!
So - back to the Equimax. That sounds like a good treatment since our alpacas probably don't have a resistence yet. (That was the whole idea behind not deworming monthly - to keep the available treatments useful for us when they were really needed.)
Interesting idea about the dog tapeworm tablet. I try to keep our dog away from the alpaca fields and I've wondered if our dog could get tapeworms from the alpacas. Maybe I should keep an eye on the dog poop! Kaye
Kaye Sanderson
Diamond Rose Ranch
3950 N US Hwy 68
Wilmington, Ohio 45177
(937) 372-3625
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Upperfarmnic

491 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2007 :  07:48:39 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How soon after treatment did the tapeworms present? Once you've wormed an animal and the tape worm(s) die, all the segments are expelled in the poop. If it was within a couple days, you might be seeing the results of worming and there's no problem.

Segments that are live can be seen moving slightly in the feces.

Nicole Carter
Upper Farm Alpacas
Pownal, ME
niccarr33@msn.com
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vlyons

670 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2007 :  08:46:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit vlyons's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Only praziquantel is really effective for tapeworms. valbazen and synanthic bottle says that they treat for tapes, but my experience is that they do not. they may dislodge a few tape eggs, in which case, you'll see eggs in the stool, and that's your warning sign to administer praziquantel--brand nameas=droncit and drontal.

you can safely use the dog droncit tabs, but you'll need 6 to 10 tabs for an adult alpaca. read the label for the dosage per lb., which will be in kilograms. I order a bottle of 100 for $179US from http://www.pets-megastore.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=698

It comes in from Australia or New Zealand, so allow 10 days for delivery.

the tapeworm life cycle goes thru lice and fleas. so you'll also need to dust your animals with 5% Seven powder. dust about 1/4 cup behind the ears, down the back of the neck and spine, and around the tail. repeat the dusting in 2 weeks.


Virginia Lyons
Able Oaks Ranch Alpacas
Rusk, Texas
www.ableoaks.com
contact@ableoaks.com
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Kaye

154 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2007 :  09:13:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nicole, we started treatment on Oct 28 and I saw the tapeworms on Nov 7, so 10 days after treatment began.
As always, this forum is very helpful! Kaye
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Ronee

238 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2007 :  12:37:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ronee's Homepage  Click to see Ronee's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
This is only slightly related, but wanted to share for informational purposes.

If you do your own fecals, take a tape segment and float it as you do your fecals, then you can see exactly what the eggs look like. (The segment is full of eggs.)

I did mine a month ago and I can still see the little buggers. Kagillions of them.

Anyway, now I have my own reference sample.

Ronee


Ronee and Jerry McDonald
Old McDonald's Farm, Inc.
Fairfax, MN
(507)426-6067
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vlyons

670 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2007 :  04:09:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit vlyons's Homepage  Reply with Quote
when I use droncit, the next morning I'll find a big nasty poop filled with tape eggs and the mother tape worm. ugg ugg yuck, but so glad it's out of the animal.

Virginia Lyons
Able Oaks Ranch Alpacas
Rusk, Texas
www.ableoaks.com
contact@ableoaks.com
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JMartin3

51 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2011 :  1:03:23 PM  Show Profile  Send JMartin3 an AOL message  Click to see JMartin3's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Hello, I seem to be having the same sort of problem. I was wondering, when the stool visibly has large worms, how can you tell if they are from your worming precautions or are an actual problem?
Thanks,
Josh.



Joshua Martin
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2011 :  1:52:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Josh, the only worm you'll see in the poop pile is tapeworm, and it sheds segments irregularly. Tapes are most easily treated with Equimax at 3-4 times the horse dose (it's not exact because of the way the tube is marked) - for example, a 100 pound alpaca would need the same dose as a 300-400 pound horse.

What worming "precautions" are you taking? In general, you should only be worming for gut worms if a fecal sample shows parasite eggs, and the alpaca is showing signs of ill thrift. There are some that tend to be treated no matter the number of eggs or the alpaca's behavior (e.g., Nematodirus), but those vary from place to place. Check fecals regularly, but don't worm unless there's a reason (routine, scheduled deworming is the biggest reason we have so many resistant parasites now).

Meningeal worm, which affects the brain, is the only parasite which is prevented with a monthly injection of ivermectin.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.bagendsuris.com
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Christiane

2830 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2011 :  7:30:30 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kaye,

When I got my rose grey male, he had tapes and I wormed him with Safeguard. I don't use any kind of wormer routinely, only if I have done a fecal and find cause to worm. I have never used Equimax, but keep the Safeguard on hand because it can be used for other worms as well as Tapes. I also use it for my dogs. As per my vet, they get the same dosage 1cc per 10 lbs.

Christiane Rudolf
Tanglewood Farm
19741 Victory Lane
Fayetteville, Ohio 45118
(513) 875-3739
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JMartin3

51 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2011 :  8:57:23 PM  Show Profile  Send JMartin3 an AOL message  Click to see JMartin3's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
We do not use dewormers regularly on the farm but recently we decided to give them all a dosage as we haven't in a very long time. We have numerous evergreen tree's that act as a natural de-wormer and have found it has been working very well since the new pasture has been opened.

And yes Jill, you are right. I used Equimax and called our veterinarian to make sure we had the dosage right.
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bturner

181 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  12:44:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit bturner's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have seen some tapeworm segments in a couple areas of our poop piles. HAve not been able to determine who it is yet. Some of the pieces were white squares. Others looked like rice. Today I found something that looked maybe like a dead tapeworm in a poop. It sort of looked like onion that had been fried up and carmelized. Would this be a dead tapeworm that was expelled?

Brian.....

Brian and Joy Turner
Our Little World Alpacas LLC
Grafton, OH
http://www.alpacanation.com/ourlittleworld.asp
www.ourlittleworldalpacas.com
(440) 477-4300
(440) 724-7070
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rip55jcp

254 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  1:17:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit rip55jcp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:

5cc/day for prevention such as before and during show or as an appetite stimulator. 5-10cc/2x day during illness but never during treatment for coccidia. B vitamins in probiotics counter act the effects of the coccidial drugs. Hard to over dose with probiotics.



I guess this shoots my plans. I have Corid powder and if I need to deworm an animal, I had planned to mix it with Probios so that I would have a paste to smear into the mouth of the alpaca that I am trying to administer it to. I haven't had any luck in the past in getting them to eat a powdered medicine that I top dress their pellets with and with only 1 person to administer the medicine, it is very difficult to manage a liquid.

Any other ideas of what I could mix the powder with to make a paste?


Theresa Pitts
Deepstep Creek Alpacas and Anatolian Shepherds
Deepstep, GA

www.deepstepcreekalpacas.com
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Judith

4103 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  1:25:16 PM  Show Profile  Send Judith a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I've never tried the Corid powder form so I have no idea what doseage you'd use, but once you compute that, you might try mixing it with yogurt (although the probiotics in that might have the same effect). However, I've used yogurt with Albon for coccidia with good effect. Or try pureed baby carrots (they should LOVE that LOL) or applesauce.

Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Farm Bolivian Suri Alpacas
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp
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Judith

4103 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  1:29:38 PM  Show Profile  Send Judith a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jillmcm

Josh, the only worm you'll see in the poop pile is tapeworm. . .

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.bagendsuris.com


Are you sure, Jill? I saw a couple of roundworms in a feces pile last summer. They're pretty distinctive. I know they weren't tapeworm because with all my cats I know tapeworm! Unless there's another insect or grub that looks like roundworm that could inhabit a poop pile, but I've never seen one before or since that one time.

Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Farm Bolivian Suri Alpacas
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp
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rip55jcp

254 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  1:34:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit rip55jcp's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Judith,

I did try the applesauce thing before and couldn't get them to even touch it. Even after I spread some on their mouth so they could get the taste of it.



Theresa Pitts
Deepstep Creek Alpacas and Anatolian Shepherds
Deepstep, GA

www.deepstepcreekalpacas.com
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Judith

4103 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  2:07:33 PM  Show Profile  Send Judith a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I didn't say it was EASY to get them to try it. They just want the option of doing it themselves, which you can't give them when you're dosing meds LOL. Usually once you've used it a couple of times, they accept it with some degree of grace, if definitely not gratitude. The carrots ought to work well too. . . eventually.

Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Farm Bolivian Suri Alpacas
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp
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BeachRunFarm

96 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  3:33:48 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just jumping in here as a newbie. I definitely do not have the knowledge some others have, but parasites has been something that really interests me and I have tried to learn as much as I can for my animals' care.

I had tapeworms once and treated with Equimax and have never seen them again. I would have to check my records to determine what dose I used; but, it did work very well.

In regard to Corid; I have used that as well but only with an injection of thiamine every other day (I believe) to prevent any problems with poliomielitis. I was nervous about using it, but it works well; however, many say Albon is a better solution for coccidia and no need for the thiamine shot. However, the Corid did work and we had no issues with it.

Patricia Harkness
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jillmcm

3204 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  4:01:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit jillmcm's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tapes are ubiquitous in North American pastures, and many animals have them without ever passing segments - they are usually not a problem unless an animal is debilitated for another reason, but they can cause death if they get out of hand in an animal that is sick. Since they are contracted by ingesting a mite that lives in pastures (not from fleas, like dogs and cats), there's no practical way to get rid of them, and most alpacas tolerate them just fine. Equimax is great for eliminating a current load - but believe me, most alpacas just get reinfested each year.

Jill McElderry-Maxwell
Bag End Suri Alpacas of Maine - ¡BESAME!
Benton, ME
(207) 453-0109
bagendsuris@roadrunner.com
http://www.bagendsuris.com
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