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 9. General Alpaca Discussion
 Threats to kill/maim alpacas
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/21/2007 :  7:37:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I started a new topic to make sure that the word gets out that this sick behavior is more widespread than we ever imagined it to be, and that the internet is the vehicle of transmission.

My daughter received a threat to kill our alpacas on the internet yesterday.

These are 14 year old boys who have been threatening to hurt our alpacas for about a year. The threat on the internet was essentially "ALPACA GENOCIDE" copied over and over 266 times. Picture that on a computer screen! The mood he registered for the day was "accomplished" with a pretty evil 'emoticon' next to it.

I am waiting for the sheriff to call me back. I have also called Crime Stoppers in Walworth County where Willow Tan Alpacas' little cria was mutilated. I have names, but will not print them here. If you are interested, please let me know.

The kid who sent the threat has as his MySpace profile picture 4 mutilated animals that appear to be either deer or perhaps llamas.

This needs to be dealt with head-on.

Let's keep our herds safe!




Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com

WillowTan

592 Posts

Posted - 11/21/2007 :  9:08:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit WillowTan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
THANK YOU for posting the information.
And for contacting the Walworth County Crime Stoppers.
Just maybe, there is a connection.
I have thought that the internet may be a way for them to "share" the sick ideas.
ANY information that leads to answers is welcome.
Thank you and you were right to "get the word out".
SAFETY to you and your alpacas.
Tana

Tana L. Ward
WillowTan Alpacas
A Small Farm With Strong Values!
http://alpacanation.com/willowtanalpacas.asp
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2007 :  12:22:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello, Tana -

The sheriff's deputy came by and we talked for a long time. While he was here, my son got onto MySpace and showed him the email that was sent to my daughter. They then clicked on the kid's profile, and he apparently was ON the internet right then, and had changed his profile to "Alpacas Should Die" and had the photo of four mutilated alpacas as his profile photo(they're NOT deer - very clearly alpacas).

One of the kids got a real 'talking to' by parents with the officer present. Who knows....maybe they're really just 'acting out'.....the officer was waiting for the others to get back home, so their Thanksgiving Day may be a little unpleasant for them. Hooey! What I"m wondering is, if these kids are just into harassing my daughter, and not a danger to alpacas - or other animals - why are they obsessing about it on a holiday, when they haven't even seen my daughter in a couple of days?

The deputy agrees that the kids have crossed the line and this has clearly become harassment of my daughter, but I'm not sure he gets how I see this as a personal threat to harm MY property, not to mention the animal cruelty issues. I told him that if someone were to take a baseball bat to a person's Jaguar, no one would question it. This officer does personally know the kids and agrees that they are in need of some serious reality checks. I think he takes it seriously enough, so I don't want to leave the impression that he just blew it off. He is saying that these kids are going to stop here and now. I hope that happens.

I'll email you a copy of the MySpace info. It's pretty sick. Don't want to get into "defamation of character" stuff.

Take care....

NC

Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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Jessie Schmoker

794 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2007 :  08:58:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jessie Schmoker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This kind of thing just makes me sick. What kind of world are we dealing with these days where kids feel free to threaten other kids and post sick, depraved images and thoughts for the world to see and then think it's alright? Nancy, I hope the deputy took it seriously and the "talking to" by the parents involved cutting the kids off from any technology more advanced than a toothbrush. In spite of this I hope you, Gene and the kids have a great Thanksgiving!

Jessie Schmoker
Alpacas of St. Croix Valley
Somerset, WI
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Alpacalady

685 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2007 :  09:59:22 AM  Show Profile  Visit Alpacalady's Homepage  Reply with Quote

The ugly-ness that is hitting all of us from these punks is a very sad statement to the lack of direction these young creeps (I hesitate to call them people) are getting from their parents and communities. I sincerely hope Law Enforcement takes these cases seriously and do their utmost to put a stop to it.
These dirtbags will maybe someday have families of their own and I hate to think how they will be bringing up their children, since they themselves never learned to care for or respect animals or the people who raise and love these animals. Not to mention the threat to peoples livelihood and property.

Laila


Graceland Alpaca Farm
Lisbon Falls, Maine
gracelandfarms@verizon.net
207-353-2171
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Always Accoyo

1347 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2007 :  10:51:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't buy the 'these are just kids acting out' excuse. Everyone, no matter what their age, needs to take responsibility for their own actions. I hope they get more than a talking to. Where are their parents? Maybe if they were also held responsible for what their kids do, all this evil would be brought under some control, unless they think their kids are just acting out as well.

Every generation gets the children it deserves.

Nancy Wright
Always Accoyo
Oxford, MI
248-236-0115
alpacas@alwaysaccoyo.com
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2007 :  3:16:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I agree with the notion that these kids need to be "read the riot act" about this.

What we're going to do is follow up with the school principal, and the officer told me that if these guys were adults, he would recommend a restraining order against them.

The problem for law enforcement is complex. In addition to keeping creeps from hurting others, they have to protect our 1st amendment rights, and recognize the rights of minors....even the officer admitted that that was the real problem for him in this situation.

What is really amazing is that one of the parents is a GAME WARDEN, and these kids should have more respect for our 4-legged brothers.

At any rate, I'm going to see this through until I"m satisfied these kids have absolutely GOTTEN the message, and fully understand that I'll have them UNDER the jail if they don't.

They need to be stopped not only because of the harm they're already causing, but for the sociopathic attitudes they are fostering anonymously on the internet.

Thanks for you support. I'll keep people updated.

Nancy Campbell
Ravenshire Farm

Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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redroofranch

270 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2007 :  7:02:00 PM  Show Profile  Visit redroofranch's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nancy,

What about the alpacas that were mutilated in the photos? Did you receive any information about how they got the pictures? Did they take them? If so, the officer should be following up on that. Those alpacas had to belong to someone.

Thank you for taking it seriously enough to call law enforcement. You are right. Those kids need to be dealt with, and I have a hunch that their parents talking to them is not going to be enough if they are hurting animals.

Kathy


Kathy & Rick Tinkham
Red Roof Ranch Alpacas
Cadiz, KY

www.alpacanation.com/redroofranch.asp

(270) 522-0379

"We create our tomorrows by what we dream today."
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/22/2007 :  9:38:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm having problems responding - hope this one works....

The photo looks like some I've seen taken by law enforcement in cases of coyote/loose dog kills. We discussed this with the officer, and he said he would bring it up to the kid's parents. I'm not sure what happened last night with that, but the kid's MySpace page changed dramatically overnight.

So far as I'm concerned, the damage has been done. We were told by the officer that if this kid were an adult, he would be recommending a restraining order, and I think this one kid did irreparable harm by supporting the creeps that beheaded the cria in Delavan...

Well, as I said before, I'll keep you all updated...

NC

Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2007 :  8:43:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I talked to the principal today in Washburn. The kids who were harassing my daughter and threatening to kill our alpacas are being dealt with by the principal. Together with law enforcement, the school district is taking this all seriously. In other words, these kids have been told, in no uncertain terms, that their behavior is intolerable, and will not continue in or out of school. If anything happens that appears to be a law enforcement issue, the principal is going to refer it to the sheriff's office.

Here's hoping they get the message. I have told both law enforcement and the school that I consider this to be a threat against MY personal property in addition to harassment of my daughter. I'll probably contact the parents in the next few days......I had to bury a horse yesterday, and am really sad....

Y'all take care....

Nancy

I've



Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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WillowTan

592 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2007 :  10:17:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit WillowTan's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nancy,

Thank you for following thru on this and not letting it go.
The kids involved NEED to be held accountable.
Sorry to hear about your horse...Hugs thru the internet.
Tana

Tana L. Ward
WillowTan Alpacas
A Small Farm With Strong Values!
http://alpacanation.com/willowtanalpacas.asp
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ard

1844 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2007 :  11:19:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Nancy,
I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this tribulation. It is a well known fact that children/young adults who threaten harm to animals usually go on to do harm to humans in their adult lives. These threats must be taken seriously by all involved. Please be careful when you approach the parents. I would encourage you to research them first before opening yourself to them. They may be nice people unaware of what their children are doing. They also might be part of the problem. First and formost - protect yourself, your family, and your animals.
Bullies are bullies. It would be nice if the local authortes locked them up for a weekend. It might give them some insight as to what their future might be if they continue on the path they are currently taking.
We so often hear people say, "Oh, boys will be boys," or, "Oh, they're just kids, let's not ruin their lives with these charges." What about the lives they ruin or disrupt by their actions? Most childrens' moral codes are formed by the time they are ten. If these codes are not correct, it takes strong measures to make these children realize that society will not tolerate inappropriate behavior.
Please be firm, but careful as you pursue this. You are doing the right thing. Take care and God protect you as you deal with this situation.

Robin Alpert
Alpacas 'R Diamonds
15163 W 323rd
Paola, KS 66071
913-849-3738
www.alpacanation.com/alpacasrdiamonds.asp

Edited by - ard on 11/27/2007 02:04:09 AM
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yarnpeddler

97 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2007 :  01:55:27 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nancy,

Please consider asking the police department for a "civil stand by" when you go and speak with the families of these bullies. I have a very good friend who has been a police officer for over 20 years. I asked for his opinion and he felt that it would be in your best interest to ask for the civil stand by. It would also make a more a deeper impression with the families and the bullies. It may also give you a credible witness just in case there is a problem at their house or if there is a retaliation against you and yours. Also, be patient with the department when you request the stand by. It may take them some time before they are ready for you.

I am sorry to hear of your loss. Our thoughts are with you as you grieve for your great horse.

Blessing, be well, be safe and keep us posted on how you are.

Toni Kester
Spirit Eagle Alpacas
Lakewood, Wa
yarnpeddler@hotmail.com
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2007 :  07:34:00 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank you all for your support....It's very creepy that one of the fathers in this situation is a GAME WARDEN!!! Not only should they have more respect for ALL animals, this is a family with guns in the closet.

I am definitely going to tread carefully with these folks. A huge issue for me is, like Tana Ward, we're new in town....and it's a SMALL town. Bayfield County, WI, has the fame of being the only county in Wisconsin with no traffic lights, so we're SMALL...

and these folks are neighbors, friends of friends, cousins of my students, etc.

The kid who posted the creepy stuff on the internet was ON the internet while we were talking to the deputy, and was escalating his threats to harm alpacas, so if we hadn't stepped in, they could have gotten themselves worked up to actually DO something - more than threaten to do something (which is bad enough) - over the holiday.

I teach middle school myself, and have gotten some of this flack from kids whose families have more traditional livestock. Apparently, alpacas are considered a "wimpy" animal, and not 'real' livestock by a lot of farmers.

The old guy who sells me hay has seen a lot of trends come and go in agriculture in his 70+ yrs of farming, and he thinks alpacas are a great idea. Thinks we should be looking at making them more of a general livestock animal, including for meat production. He's looking long-term, and has been studying the issue with the U. of WI and a local extension task force (meaning future trends in farming, not just what to do with alpacas). Anyway, as a beef and dairy cattle, hogs and chicken farmer, he sees the industry from that perspective....My point being that he sees alpacas as a good idea, but agrees that they're a tough sell to the more traditional livestock owners.

My hay seller mentioned that there's a recent article in "New Holland" magazine calling alpacas the latest "artichoke"....something that costs a fortune to get into, then prices collapse. Emus, llamas, and artichokes....now the attitude amongst mainstream, New Holland driving farmers is that we're just fluff.

I think part of why alpacas are becoming a target is this attitude that they're just overpriced pets.

Even the shop "Alpaca Connection" at the Mall of America tells people that alpacas in this country aren't used for much more than fancy shows and don't really produce anything! I gave that woman a piece of my mind, and corrected everything she said. The customer she had been talking to stopped me in the mall and said he couldn't believe she would lie like that. I can't figure out why she would have such a beef against local producers if she's trying to promote alpacas! We're not competing with her Peruvian imported alpaca-skin bedspreads!

I think our glossy magazines and the huge percentage of 'retiree-turned-hobby-farmer', of which I could be considered one, contribute to this attitude. Not much you can do about that, but we CAN make an impact in pushing our industry as more practical, eco-friendly, serious livestock operations.

As I'm writing this, I'm looking at the ads on the side of the screen, and see that we actually help promote the misconception that we're just fluff if all we do is focus on shows, sales, and studliness...

By bringing this up, I certainly don't condone, justify, or even comprehend the violent and sadistic attitudes these kids are fostering. I just think that we need to look at WHY alpacas would be a target, and we need to get the word out that we ARE serious livstock farmers, and this is NOT a 'fluff' industry.

Anyone who has scooped poop as much as we do, rescued dum-dum yearlings from the water tank (as I had to last night!), watched animals die and figure out how and where to bury them, had to call the vet for a complicated birth, haul animals in 90-degree weather, etc. etc., etc., should consider him/herself a serious livestock farmer. We need to convince the greater agricultural world of that.

AND deal with cyber-creeps...

Y'all take care...

NC

Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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Jessie Schmoker

794 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2007 :  11:03:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Jessie Schmoker's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I just have to ask - who's the dum-dum yearling?

Jessie Schmoker
Alpacas of St. Croix Valley
Somerset, WI
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2007 :  11:14:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Cloud Sprite - surprised?

NC

Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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llamapelli

1401 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2007 :  10:23:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit llamapelli's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I am sorry to hear about your horse. In the last week I had to bury my palomino gelding and an elderly stud llama. It has been a very sad week.

My father is one of the nay-sayers. Years ago he told me to get rid of my llamas and alpacas and buy "real" livestock like cattle. He also told me to drop my boyfriend, who is now my beloved husband. So much for Dad. I am sure that many people had the same opinion of the ultrafine merino sheep that Australians started raising (my cousins who were sheep farmers from way back certainly did). Concentrate on meat, not wool. Now look where they are. Heck, people pay top dollar for merino long underwear! We can do the same for alpacas. It will just take time and the numbers to produce a national wool herd. Unfortunately, in the meantime, we have to deal with a**holes like those kids who are obviously spoiled little cretins.

Melanie McMurry
Anasazi Alpacas & Kokopelli Llamas
Gladesville, WV
304-864-5210
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 11/27/2007 :  10:46:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yeah - I know what you mean - I'm not really buying into the idea that we have to produce meat animals. I'm a fiber artist, so I want the fiber.

My daughter lived in Peru for about 3 months and had the opportunity to eat alpaca meat (guinea pigs too) and says it tastes pretty good - All that aside, it is what it is....there's the perception out there that alpaca farmers/ranchers are not 'serious' livestock owners, and there is the perception that since they are 'weird pets', they have no real value....and are laughable.

I live in an area where there are a lot of outdoorsy 'gear-heads' who would really get into wearing alpaca if it were packaged the right way. Look at Smart Wool....I've known about Merino wool since I was a kid - don't remember how - but, since my father is allergic to synthetics, and we realized that I am too, we've investigated all sorts of natural fibers as long as I can remember....so I'm pushing alpaca with Duluth Pack and other companies like that. There is a sock manufacturer that combines Merino, alpaca, and silk - what I call "God's gift to cold feet"....It doesn't even matter if I am the one who directly makes a sale at that time, I push this end of the industry any chance I can get.

I even made up banners with my slogan and have little flyers written up giving details about alpaca's superiority to most types of wool, etc.

It's hard work like this that we need to do to get public opinion to shift and for alpacas to be accepted as 'normal' and valuable livestock.

However, I think there will still be scary, violent, undisciplined kids out there who don't care.

Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2007 :  12:36:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No update on our case with the three boys threatening to kill our herd, but will post as soon as something happens. They got a very clear, stern warning from both the Sheriff's office and the school, so we're hoping that worked.

People HAVE to stand up to this kind of behavior. A lot of people look the other way, then wonder why we have all these mall shootings, etc....

At this point, it takes the global village to raise a healthy child.

The kids have, thank heavens, stopped harassing my daughter at school. Also, last time we checked, their MySpace page was much different - I don't want to say better, but it's hard to change people like this.

Best wishes to all....

Nancy


Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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prestonspac

226 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2007 :  2:06:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit prestonspac's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have been following this thread like many others on the board, at this point I feel that it is the right time for me to chime in with some thoughts. First understand that this is a wide spread problem and is not isolated to any one area. We all need to be aware that there are many groups of folks that can be very dangerous to our pacas, dogs, cats and other animal friends. These groups range from those that worship the occult to idiot kids who have nothing better to do with their time. Also understand that many of these kids are dangerous, do not disregard their threats direct or otherwise. There is a stong correlation between teens who abuse animals and adults who commit violent crimes against people. Many of these kids are serious in their threats and are willing to go to great lengths to hurt animals or humans for that matter. I am glad that Nancy is taking action and in contact with local LE, trust me that is very important. Anyone who is in a similar situation needs to contact local LE, then you need to continue to contact them on a regular basis. As much as I hate to say it be a bit of a pain, stay on top of what is happening. As long as you remain courteous with the local officers they will return the favor. Also check with the guys and see if they can stop by your place occasionally, a quick trip in the driveway by a police car when you are away at work a couple of times a week does send a message. We call if flying the colors, it announces that you are in the area and keeping an eye on things, believe it or not sickos do recognize small gestures like this. Also check with local LE be it the Sheriff or State Police and see if they have posted property signs or other warning signs that the property is watched, I know that we have a program where we will watch property for folks so I am sure that many other agencies do as well. A sign from law enforcement can go a long way toward keeping dangerous folks away from your property. I also would recommend a good warning system, our Pry is awsome and his bark and growl can wake you from a dead sleep. Motion lights on the barn can always be a possibility, and for anyone who feels that they may be targeted locking animals in the barn at night could also be an option. The last advise I have is going to be the most controversial, check the laws in your area as they pertain to trespass, burglary and animal cruelty. This is important many states have statutes on the books regarding farm animals and YOUR ABILITY TO PROTECT YOUR ANIMALS. These laws will be different from state to state so do some research and check with the local police if necessary. It is always good to understand the steps you can take if you encounter someone on your property atempting to harm your pacas. Remember many states force you to allow an intruder to retreat both from your property and believe it or not even your house. It is good to understand how much you can do to protect yourself, your family, and your pacas. Finally understand that incidents like what was suffered by Tana can happen to any of us, we all need to take the appropriate steps to protect our pacas as best we can, that being said if a few sickos want to get at your alpacas they probably will. The key is to do as much as possible to prevent it from happening.

Tim

p.s. Oh by the way shooting target practice on your property occasionally can do more than help you site in your favorite varmint rifle, it also sends a loud message to anyone in the area!!!

Prestons Alpacas
Worcester NY, 12197
607-397-8051
http://www.alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=13490
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Ravenshire

41 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2007 :  10:09:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Ravenshire's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your suggestions. I'll look into them...We've already taken care of a few things, but I need to stay on top of it....

NC

Ravenshire Farm Alpacas
Washburn, WI
ravenshirefarm@aol.com
www.ravenshirefarm.com
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llamapelli

1401 Posts

Posted - 01/07/2008 :  11:40:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit llamapelli's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It is bad enough when outsiders are making threats and hurting our animals, but when it is a breeder (presumably), it makes it even worse. This actually has to do with ALSA, but it really illustrates "what is this world coming to?" The new President of ALSA, Ken Fenley, received this message:

"Hi. This message is for Ken. I just wondered if you liked your animals and your wife real well because the first person that we're coming after is the old lady. You will resign from the Presidency of ALSA. You will sell your animals and you will quit. If not I will be eating them."

I can't believe an organization's politics and infighting would degrade to this!

Melanie McMurry
Anasazi Alpacas & Kokopelli Llamas
Gladesville, WV
304-864-5210
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