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 How should the Alpaca Forum be improved?
 getting spammed via AN Messenger
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alpacastarr

688 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2010 :  07:07:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit alpacastarr's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I don't think sellers should be able to use the AN Messenger to broadcast their advertising to AN members.

When I get a message from the AN Messenger I expect it to be personal and (usually is) an inquiry about my items for sale on AN.



Starr
Venezia Dream Farm
Asheville, NC
http://alpacanation.com/farmsandbreeders/03_viewfarm.asp?name=11404
http://www.veneziadream.com/

Judith

4103 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2010 :  10:15:37 AM  Show Profile  Send Judith a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
Star, are you talking about messages sent from AN subscriber's pages, or some other "messenger" format? I know it's annoying to have people leaving messages on our pages asking if we want to buy their alpacas, if that's what you mean. However, since they also go onto the trade boards and offer to "trade" their alpacas for money, I'm not sure how AN could stop them.

Judith Korff
AlpacaNation Forum Co-Moderator
LadySong Farm Bolivian Suri Alpacas
Randolph, NY 14772
Cell: (716) 499-0383
www.alpacanation.com/ladysong.asp
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ebagley

42 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2010 :  1:59:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit ebagley's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, I agree. Use the message option to send messages, not spam.
See my answer to a spammer below.

RE: bad mannersū
From: Elwin Bagley (elwinbagley@msn.com)
Sent: Fri 7/09/10 1:37 PM
To:
C
1 attachment
image001.jpg (39.2 KB)


Good Afternoon
I wish to apologize for the incorrect wording of my message to you protesting
your using AN as a medium to send spam.

I know that AN management does not ban messages such as your ad.
But it is only common sense to not post such messages to individual message boxes
of AN Subscribers. AN, just like any other communications medium has specific forums
for specific uses. If all the thousands for AN users started listing alpacas for sale on
each user mail box, what would be the use the AN farm listings?

The classifieds are used for various goods. The forum is used for communications.
It is not proper to use the individual mail boxes for the purpose of advertising
alpacas for sale. Everyone uses the message forum to answer specifice questions
that come up in the classifieds and the forum,
I myself get answers to classified ads
via the message to members option, and I look forward to getting those answers
NOT mixed in with advertisments that belong in other areas.

I think Rick Horn who moderated the Alpaca site suggested that the AN forum be
controlled more and not be an advertising site and also suggested controlling the
Message option.

At any rate, I did not want to be taken off your mailing list.
I only wished to point out that you are probably losing credibility with
potential customers by misusing the message option.

Success is getting what you want
Happiness is liking what you get.

Elwin Bagley
www.windyhillalpacafarm.com
www.alpacayarnusa.com
www.snitruth.org




There are none so blind as those who will not see
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Elegante Vellon

45 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2010 :  9:06:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Elegante Vellon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Elwin Bagley – Windy Hill Alpaca Farm,

Mr. Bagley,

What you failed to mention to all the readers was Elegante Vellon Alpacas contacted Alpaca Nation (management) on July 7, 2010 by phone and got FULL APPROVAL to send advertising emails to individual member inboxes. I explained to them in detail about what it was I wanted to relay regarding a very special sales event we are having.

I also explained we did not want to violate policy and thought it prudent to get prior approval.

Per Alpaca Nation, this is normal and accepted advertising. Their exact quote to me on July 7, 2010 was:

Quote: (If you would like to take the time to send individual advertising emails to membership inboxes then feel free to do so. We only mandate that the advertising sent be about Alpacas. It is completely acceptable to us to advertise in this format). Unquote

I contacted Alpaca Nation management and gave them our truthful advertising conversation Mr. Bagley along with copies of my very nice reply back to you along with an apology for disturbing you.

They can clearly see that I not only apologized for you receiving unwanted Sale Advertising, but I also offered a simple suggestion on fixing this problem with a very simple solution.

You left out our entire conversation and made Elegante Vellon Alpacas sound like bad members who have no caring or respect for other members privacy. This is the farthest from the truth. We have great caring and respect for all people. Our business practices are impeccable. Our name and reputation both personal and business are important to us.

We advertise precisely the way Alpaca Nation rules dictate. Every venue we advertise in is precisely by the rules set forth by that entity.

Alpaca Nation management has authorized and approved the sending of Sales Announcements via personal email to all its members. I have the name of that management person who gave us that authorization.

Alpaca Nation Management offered us no other alternative to stop unwanted advertising emails from reaching mailboxes such as yours and others who do not want advertising contact in this fashion.

This leaves members like us no options. Believe me when I say we want other options. The last thing Advertisers want is to reach potential customers that do not want contact in a particular format or in general. That makes no business sense and quite frankly is a waste of advertising time and dollars.

When you choose to post one sided forum publications, please put the entire story out and all emails that are sent back and forth prior to your posting.

Alpaca breeders are very EDUCATED people and capable of making full rounded decisions based on the entirety of those writings.

In closing, I would like to ad this interesting statistic on this email subject.

To date we have sent out almost 850 individual emails to Alpaca Nation Members email boxes.

I have had two (2) that were displeased. You being one.

Forty three (43) members sent positive replies via email back to us.

Twelve (12) members made personal calls to me to discuss sales animals and request further information be sent to them via hard mail.

Two (2) made calls to me requesting other services we offer that were unrelated to the email sent.

I would say that is great success for Four (4) days of advertising in any format.

Your argument and displeasure about Alpaca Nation email policies fall within Alpaca Nation Management and the rules they set forth to us as members.

Your fight is not with Elegante Vellon Alpacas Mr. Bagley.

Respectfully,

Craig Sibbett - Snowmass Sales Agents

Cell Phone: 435-327-1448

Website: www.elegantevellon.com





Craig Sibbett- Manager
Elegante Vellon Alpacas
Accoyo Heritage

5258N 1700W
Cedar City, Utah

WEBSITE: www.elegantevellon.com
MANAGER CELL: 435-327-1448

OWNERS: Jay & Patricia Sibbett



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Paradise

922 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2010 :  9:28:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Paradise's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Craig, whether or not you have approval isn't necessarily the question. When I get an e-mail through AlpacaNation I assume that someone is inquiring about MY animals. When I find that they are merely spamming me with their own sales, I am irritated. You would find that you receive a better response, with much less chance of irritation, if you would use an e-mail program designed for marketing such as Constant Contact, or use the AOBA e-mail marketing program. Other things, like the ads you're running on AN also are great for getting your message out without making your targeted audience feel misled.

For every person who has told you that they are irritated, I guarantee there are many more who just deleted the e-mail and didn't respond to you, or even if they will respond because of the farm you are representing will feel a certain amount of distaste. You're lucky enough to be marketing a great product and it's a shame that you're using amisleading form of advertising when there are better options out there.

By the way, a quick comment to others who are annoyed by this type of advertising; though I didn't do it this time, I generally reply with a quick e-mail noting what great specials I am currently running!

Laura Hillman
Paradise Alpacas
Hempstead, TX
979-826-9559
www.alpacanation.com/paradisealpacasoftx.asp
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Elegante Vellon

45 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2010 :  11:13:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Elegante Vellon's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Laura - Respectfully,

Alpaca Nation Management Approves this as Acceptable and Normal Advertising Practice. Per their words (if one wants to take the time to send them it is fine with us). Believe me it is time consuming.

Per my conversation: Management condones this type of advertising as everyday normal as if we purchased a BOX AD from them. Which by the way we do this paid form of advertising also with Alpaca Nation.

All one can do in life is follow the rules set before us.

The same scenario came up months ago with AOBA Eblasts.
A very small percentage of breeders would email disapproval about receiving advertising in their inboxes. Yet AOBA condones, advertises, sells and sends the Eblast.

It is the responsiblity of the owners of each entity or membership to set these rules. Put options or alternatives in place for members to use so that everyone is happy.

Every business person has their own thesis on advertising. We know breeders that do none. Some occasional. Others spend thousands a year. Each one has their own personal story on what works for them and why. We love that and believe that what works for one breeder may or may not work for another.

What we believe is that one must do some form of advertising. Find out what works and stay with it. Make sure it is legal, ethical and acceptable by the issuing company.

AOBA merely has to ask members if they would like to be on an advertising EBLAST list. Members that decline will simply be excluded from the advertising EBLAST. How simple is that?

Alpaca Nation in my opinion needs to put the same type of (paid) Eblast listing in place. Then every member will have an (option) button on their own account page allowing them to turn on or off the option to receive Eblasts.

If turned off that member will only receive personal inquiry emails that is currently in place. This would be wonderful for us all.

When this is option is set in place then Alpaca Nation can inform members and set protocol declaring all advertising to members must be sent via (paid) BOX ADS, (paid) Eblast Ads or on our own PERSONAL PAGES which is (part of our subscription cost).

No Sales emails would tolerated via any other means.

If this EBLAST option was in place Alpaca Nation would have:
A) Another media for members to advertise.

B) Additional Sales Revenue which would strengthen their business.

C) Happier Members that can controls wanted or unwanted Sales Advertising.

Members that do not want in house advertising in their mailboxes will never receive it. Problem solved.

Now isn't that a great idea? Who could possibly lose in this scenario?

We need to solve problems instead of running them around in a circle with never ending solutions.

There are many breeders across the country that have no issue with receiving what other deem SPAM. We are one of them.

It actually saves us time in researching new-old genetics, sales events, educational seminars, new products, new-old herdsires, Alpaca Products, Flash News about our industry, etc, etc.

Mr Bagley, yourself and any other breeder are welcome and encoured to load my inbox with your Sales animals, Store specials, Herdsires or any other goods you sale or offer. We will read every word and look at ever photo. I promise you that.

If we are interested we will contact the breeder. If we are not interested we will delete the ad. If we are not interested but know of someone who may be interested we forward that ad.

I respect your opinion as I do everyones opinion. I hope you respect ours on this subject that has a simple fix.

Paid Eblasts are the answer here. On - Off buttons in your account browser will take care of freedom of choice issues.

PS. If Alpaca Nation does put Paid Eblasts into effect please contact us as we would like to run an ad with you.

Thank you all very much for your time. Have a super weekend.

Craig Sibbett
Elegante Vellon Alpacas
Snowmass Sales Agents



Craig Sibbett- Manager
Elegante Vellon Alpacas
Accoyo Heritage

5258N 1700W
Cedar City, Utah

WEBSITE: www.elegantevellon.com
MANAGER CELL: 435-327-1448

OWNERS: Jay & Patricia Sibbett



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