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 1. Alpacas 101: Getting Started
 Poop pile control- Better product
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Jane Ferris

67 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2013 :  10:52:49 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been on line reading about Sweet PDZ, Stall Dry(where do you buy it in Ohio, and diomaceous earth.We have pea gravel in the dry lot areas. At the present we are using the DE.. love it,, does keep the flies away and controls order. I am aware that is good for parasite prevention. However maybe I am using to much, on the poop pile it is now like concret, we clean twice a day and I do scrape the piles to get as much mess up as possible. Is there a better product... such as the Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry.. or better yet one that does more?

Jane Ferris
The Angel and The Albatosss Alpaca Farm

Jane Ferris

littlewing

151 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2013 :  10:05:34 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have used Dolomitic, grey colored, lime for many years, with horse stalls as well. It is also called calcified lime. In the old days farmers used to feed it to their milk cows, so it is a safe. This is NOT the whiter looking, hydrated, fast acting lime which is dangerous to use in areas where any livestock can walk or breathe it in. There should be a rain or rest period whenever this type of lime is used on pastures for example. The Dolomitic lime is cheaper than the Hydrated and we buy it in bulk from our local feed store. It helps with odor, PH {since it is alkaline, it neutralizes the acid in the ammonia in the ground under the poop pile area} and because of the low cost we use a lot of it with no reservations about the cost...

As an aside, I think DE is great and an excellent, albeit more expensive, product to use on piles. However, although I realize you are NOT using DE this way, I still would like to mention that a vet tech friend/alpaca breeder tried using DE as an oral supplement to naturally kill worms in her alpacas. She did fecals first, then treated, then retested the fecals. No worms survived! She told me about it but I hesitated because I am familiar with the dangers of sand colic in horses particularly in states like FLA. where there is more sandy soil. She kept using it and checking her fcals, her alpacas gradually lost weight for no known reason...She rechecked her fecals carefully and found blood. She blood tested her alpacas and the entire herd was anemic from the DE scouring their intestines, not just the worms. So no more DE internally...

Amanda Schwab
Little Wing Farm
6327 Jefferson Mill Rd.
Scottsville, VA. 24590
littlewng@mac.com
#434 286 3931
www.alpacalove.com

Amanda Schwab
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bobvicki

2967 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2013 :  10:24:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Amanda,

Do you know if your friend was using regular DE or food grade DE?

Bob

Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
10371 N 2210 Road
Clinton, Oklahoma 73601
641-831-3576
alpaca@htswireless.com
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp
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littlewing

151 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2013 :  1:14:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Bob,

She said she was using food grade, not the "pool" grade that is used to clean pool filters. I don't know if or where she bought her DE, from a reputable company, or a health store or the local feed store, never asked...I have some doubts about being absolutely positive, that although you are paying extra, are you in fact getting the more expensive food grade DE.

Because of this, I just use traditional wormers {Ivo & Valbazen, but sparingly only a couple of times per year depending on individual need} and Dolomitic lime. I have purchased and experimented with some natural products from Eagle Peak Herbals {walnut hull style wormers...} in Co. With my size herd {smaller this year than it has ever been at 30 head} I want something that works and is cost effective...

I am aware that {supposedly} food grade DE is in many store bought premade breads etc. I have also done research and found some concern that some companies cheat and use a combo of both to cut costs...

DE is still a great product I think, just outside the alpaca, not inside them, at least for me anyway.

Amanda Schwab
Little Wing Farm
6327 Jefferson Mill Rd.
Scottsville, VA. 24590
littlewng@mac.com
#434 286 3931
www.alpacalove.com
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Christiane

2830 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2013 :  11:06:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When I was at OSU last, I asked about Diatomacious Earth, and if it really killed bugs, fleas, etc.( I had been told to use it on my dogs and cats to prevent/kill fleas)and OSU vets told me it was useless for treating for any kind of parasite. I still think it helps to keep flies down in my barns.

Christiane Rudolf
Tanglewood Farm
19741 Victory Lane
Fayetteville, Ohio 45118
(513) 875-2533
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Jane Ferris

67 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2013 :  09:25:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I do use the food grade DE, do not give it to the Alpacas, because it does have jagged edges I am apprenhensive to give orally. Yes, an excellent product for 'pests reduction'. However as stated it does turn to cement. I was told to use it on the outside edges of the poop piles since the parasites climb from the inside to the outside,, ssssooo,, maybe I will try up out-side edges instead of the entire pile,, see if that helps..

Jane Ferris
The Angel and The Albatross Alpaca Farm


Jane Ferris
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littlewing

151 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2013 :  2:18:39 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does it turn to concrete even if you do a light, even dusting on the pile? If it is a heavier amount and dumped and raked into a pee puddle I imagine it would get hard, not sure if that is what is happening? Maybe try the perimeter like you said....or resurface the yucky pile area fisr regularly, then dust with the DE?



Amanda Schwab
Little Wing Farm
6327 Jefferson Mill Rd.
Scottsville, VA. 24590
littlewng@mac.com
#434 286 3931
www.alpacalove.com
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rackapaca

663 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2013 :  9:31:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use DE, but I toss in a bag with some sand and then I add sawdust and it keeps it from compacting into cement.

Ruthann
Racka Paca Ranch
Kila, MT
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Jane Ferris

67 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  08:32:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do a light dusting, what kind of sand do you use, same type as for a childs sand box?

Jane Ferris
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rackapaca

663 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2013 :  12:08:14 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I use "play sand" for kids sandboxes due to the silica issue on all purpose sand.

Ruthann
Racka Paca Ranch
Kila, MT
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bobvicki

2967 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2013 :  3:58:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have used swimming pool DE on the poop piles in the past because I had no source for the food grade DE.

I used one of those cheap small flour sifters that you can get in the home section of most department stores. I stood up-wind of the piles and just sifted the DE and let it fall lightly on the piles or the area where the pile had been scooped. I never had any kind of build up of DE using this method.

I started to use food grade DE again now as a top dressing, 1/2 to 1 teaspoon and I buy it in 50 pound bags. I also bought a pair of those Cedar Fly Traps and have one in the barn and one by the door. My fly population is very little bother now. I was very skeptical about the fly traps and so were the HS kids who help with feeding and chores. All of us were completely surprised at their effectiveness.

My chickens help keep parasites down but we throw all food left overs to them so that is another fly attractor. I decided to use food grade DE because I noticed it was included in some livestock feeds.

Bob



Bob & Vicki Blodgett
Suri Land Alpaca Ranch
10371 N 2210 Road
Clinton, Oklahoma 73601
641-831-3576
alpaca@htswireless.com
www.alpacanation.com/suriland.asp
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Jane Ferris

67 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2013 :  9:19:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
where do you purchase the Cedar fly traps?

Thank you!

Jane Ferris
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Jane Ferris

67 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2013 :  9:26:15 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was to quick with last response, should have know Light Livestock has the fly trap.. excuse my ooops

Jane Ferris
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